Long story short:

Schiut or get off the pot, especially if you guys get along so well sounds like you may have already lost a good one.

You're in a completely different place, stop stringing her along. If you got married...there would be a sudden requirement for children...

If there's a will there's a way brother!

I am 3 years into the honeymoon, have 2 dogs, 9 month old, currently renovating a house, and see the sig and profile for current/past cars.

If you marry the right person, nothing will change.

I never wanted kids. Ever. At any point in my life, even to this day, my answer would be no. Sorry, I just don't like them.
I was married once upon a time. I had been in the field (U.S. Army) for a month. When I came home, I was knockin' the bottom out of it, just like normal. After five days or so, my ex informs me she stopped taking her daily-dailies the day I had left. The result was predictable.

My daughter is 28 now. I ended up raising her largely by myself. I wouldn't trade her for any amount of money. ANY. Problem is, I now have a grandson, and a granddaughter due in January. My beautiful daughter's body is wrecked. She just looks really old to me now. It upsets me deep down.
And I worry about the grandkids. And this world they'll have to grow up in. It ain't good, and it don't look like it'll get any better.
I gave up a lot raising her. I was broke for a long, long time. Army pay was really bad back then, and there was little sympathy for a single father. After all, the Army didn't issue you a family.

People look at you funny when you say you don't want kids. Don't like kids.
Like you're separated from the normal human condition.
I am. I admit that freely. But for other completely different reasons.
I worry about those grandkids. To the point of nausea.
I wish it was just my daughter and me again.

I have to go throw up now. I **** you not...

Carter

You're absolutely correct. I think she and her family think I'm somehow broken for not looking forward to it. Like I'm missing a paternal instinct of some sort. A gene that wasn't transferred to me.

It's worth noting that we just moved from Virginia Beach to Atlanta in November of this past year. It's also worth noting that the week before we moved I had reached the same conclusion she brought up last night, and offered her the opportunity to come to Atlanta (where her family is) without me so that she could pursue a relationship with someone who wanted the same things in life. It was incredibly difficult for me to do and caught her completely off-guard. She literally begged me with tears in her eyes not to end the relationship. I was told, at the time, that she could make do without kids as long as we could still be together.

Fast forward ten months to now, and we've had a fantastic time in ATL together. Relationship better than ever. Probably due in part to the fact that my **** head friends aren't around and she's no longer home sick. However, in the last week something clicked in her, which brought her up to speed with what I was thinking in VA and prompted the conversation.

It is a really ****ty crossroads.

1) We mutually decide to split. I'm in a city 700 miles from my family, friends, support structure. I left my company a month ago to start training for a new (commission based) career, so I have only enough money to feed myself until the end of the year. I lose my best friend, and partner in everything. However, I do continue to live as I have been, without the major responsibility of children.

2) We don't split, and one of us concedes. The first week after the decision might be a little shaky as we get back into our groove, but in the short to mid term, we'll be great. That is, until the one that conceded (which would likely be me, it seems) either learns to cope, has a change of heart, or becomes miserable.

I feel pretty numb today.

First paragraph is an ugly thing to have lived through and now you're in the current situation. She probably thought she could change you and your mind would change once you'd made the move... Obviously not the case, people rarely change.

Leave the nonsense behind, move home, and enjoy your life with yourself by your side for a while.

Option 2 is just procrastination of the inevitable, refer to first paragraph where she cried and yielded to no kids. If she'd already made it clear she wanted kids, that doesn't go away, and you're setting yourself up for an anger filled relationship. (I know, sounds crazy, but I know too many people who learned the hard way)

(Not trying to be overly harsh, but I'm just trying to be black and white with the situation)

First of all, you seem like a very likable, smart young man. I get the sense that a lot of the really insightful and heartfelt responses you have received reflects that.

I never had any issues with kids, just didn't meet a woman I wanted to marry until I was in my mid thirties. We had two children and, frankly, infants were a bit of pain for me: I loved them, cherished having them but I was anxious for the walk and talk years.

The important thing is don't press: If you love your girlfriend and she loves you I would recommend, as others have, a third party counseling session...nothing too dramatic, just a helpful professional that can ensure all sides of your problem are aired.

You guys owe it to each other to make an informed look at your future or lack of one, eyes wide open.

keep up lines of communication. full disclosures..love means you dont go blowing smoke up each other's asses..

if you are NOT on the same page, then execute a nice, polite exit strategy. it truly is the most honorable reason not to be together..no harm, no foul. true love stuff..you want the person you love to be happy, even if that means you are not in the picture.

get over it. haha.

I didn't like most kids. In retrospect, maybe I didn't like how they were raised. My childhood home was not a particularly happy one. I didn't want to go through that again.

Did get married on the open, shared knowledge that I wasn't keen on kids, but would be open to reconsider over time. She was ok with that. We were in our 20's and were in no hurry to have kids.

Some years later, met a couple who never spoke baby talk to their kid. Treated him kindly and lovingly, but more like a young, intelligent adult. This was the first kid that I ever thought was a cool kid. Balanced. Thoughtful. Asked good questions. Inquisitive. And not a PIA. Made me think it might be possible.

I think my biggest underlying concern was, if I had a kid, would I actually *like* him/her? I knew I'd be responsible. But would I actually like being around them? Would make a long slog if I didn't. And I had seen some (usually going through theatrics to get something) that it would be hard not to just chuck them from the window of a moving car.

I tried to find out what the parents had done differently. They said that the only thing was that before the kid could talk, they started briefly explaining their yes's and no's. They didn't just give commands, they explained their reasoning (and how the world worked). They held to their decisions, but calmly just made the logic clear. Seemed to defuse most of the bad behaviors I had seen in other kids.

Eventually had a son. Mostly raised him due to career differences with my wife. Explained things to him as he grew. I think he is more thoughtful, balanced and a better person than I am. No regrets. It's important to put some good fish out into the pool.

I'll weigh in.

It seems the consensus among Pelicans in this thread is "you'll want kids eventually"

Stepping back a bit, you probably shouldn't have kids. Don't feel societal pressure that having kids is just something we all do eventually. Sure, biologically, it's why we're here. But there are plenty of idiots popping out kids, the world doesn't really need yours too.

Based on your responses, you should cut bait. Move on. Have fun. Buy stuff. Have hobbies. Continue to be self centered. Buy more stuff.

But for *her* sake, allow her to chase that dream, as she will forever feel broken and resentful if she can't have children.

Kids are way, way more expensive than you think, and way more expensive than in the past.

If you have kids, IMO, you have to be prepared to sacrifice whatever it takes to give them the best chance in life. In this day and in our kind of screwed up world, that is very costly.

For example, college is the new high school. So be prepared to support kid(s) until they are 22 or older. And colleges, even state schools, are very expensive these days, and going up every year.

And many kids these days suffer "failure to flight." In the old days, even slackers could graduate high school, get a job, get married and make enough to buy a house and support a family. It's much more difficult these days for them. Kids seem to have no qualm living at home for a long time.

I disagree with most of the posters here. I have kids, and love them and wouldn't trade for anything, but that was the path that I had no doubt about. And I am realistic about the tremendous financial cost, and the impact on my life. My life is not my own, it's all about fulfilling my duties and giving them every possible advantage in life.

All of which I love, but CERTAINLY is not for everyone.

Oh, and one other thing to think about, if your girlfriend wants kids, she probably is going to want to stay home with them. Most women do, and it's the best thing for the kids. You need to be ready to financially support 2, 3 or 4 other human beings for the next 25 years, or more. It's a completely different world than being single. As a single male, it is easy for you to work enough to survive. You'll always be ok, any job you don't like you could quit and get another one, etc. But being responsible for supporting others for decades - that's a completely new ballgame.

Not everyone looks at you funny for not wanting kids, believe me. That simply makes no sense, not everyone wants the tremendous life-long responsibility (financial and otherwise) that comes with kids. Lots of people don't want it, and there's nothing wrong with it, esp. in the world we live in today.

The fact that you've been together for 6 years and not already gotten married, and that you would be happy not getting married is telling. IMO, from what you've said, this does not sound like the path for you. She will never be happy without kids, in the long run. I'd tread very carefully here. My sense is you two are staying together simply to avoid the short term pain that comes from ending any relationship.

McLovin and I rarely agree

But I completely support his sentiment here

I didn't want to have kids in my 20's, my wife did..
I bought her a cat (seriously) and that bought me like a couple of years..
Just like you I was at crossroads.. loose her or family..
I chose family and that was the best decision I made.

Someone told me there is never a good time to have kids... true.. You can still have all your hobbies, just have to juggle them. How many happy guys around here have very cool cars, projects, etc. and families.

Finding a partner like yours sounds like you'll never get again.. as you grow older what's left on the market is there for a reason, the good ones are taken already.. (most of the time)

Don't turn into those grumpy guys that prefer to live a life of loneliness by filling it with material things.

Sorry, I don't think that reproduction is a requirement of happiness. I don't think you will grow old and grumpy without kids--who clearly have a parasitic quality to them. I'd merely allow that your mind may change...or not. Just enjoy living for now and be open life's alternatives.

I did just that twice in my past - placated her for fear of the pain of loss.
Not honorable behavior.
.
Once again the Pelican support and wisdom shows itself.
I've enjoyed reading all the posts in this thread!
A great bunch of guys!
SmileWavy

I /we like kids..
we just choose not to have our own..

we've been together 33 + years...
and are just fine without them...
no regrets..

Rika

Break up with her now. You'll break her heart but it's the right thing to do.

For many women, the need to have children is visceral and critical. They cannot picture a life without being a mother. She loves you and she is clinging to the hope that you'll come around. In the meantime, you are robbing her of the the only commodities she cannot replace, time and fertility.

Would you give up your life's dream for her? You are passively allowing her dream to die. Slowly. Set her free. Let her find a man who wants to be a father. She deserves that.

Fertility peaks in your 20s. Most women hit their fertile peak between the ages of 23 and 31, though the rate at which women conceive begins to dip slightly in their late 20s. Around age 31, fertility starts to drop more quickly — by about 3 percent per year — until you hit 35 or so. From there, the decline accelerates. "The average 39-year-old woman has half the fertility she had at 31, and between 39 and 42, the chances of conceiving drop by half again.

I deal with your situation every single day in my professional life. If this woman feels the need to have children, get the hell out of her way. Now. She may reassure you that she can adjust to the idea of being childless but if that's not in her heart she will grow bitter and resentful. And you will be the man who selfishly robbed her of the opportunity to hold her own baby in her arms.

My sentiments as well.

Today has turned out to be a pretty tough, melancholy day.

Not sure if this is a sign or not, but I found a dead rabbit on the bottom of the pool today. I put up a picture on facebook (because I guess I'm creepy) and an old friend replied with "Guess your girlfriend's pregnant, huh?"

While my data is far more anecdotal than Mo's, I have to agree here. I have seen far too many otherwise level-headed women go batsheet freakin' insane when their pregnancy plans go in the ditch--and the fertility data cannot be denied.

Here's another way to look at it: If this girl is really the woman you want to spend the rest of your life with, have the kids soon-ish...or plan on paying $100k for fertility treatments in 10 years when you finally can't hold out any longer.

This is probably the most enjoyable thread on pelican in quite some time. The amount of respectfulness and point of view opinions are fantastic.

This is what keeps me around.

While I know it wasn't your meaning, I'm glad my predicament cant bring enjoyment to some.

SmileWavy :p

What matters more to you? Staying with her? Or not having kids?

Also, if you decide to have kids for her, don't be a POS dad. Just sayin. It's your choice, if you choose that path don't take it out on the kids.

The idea of having kids is something everybody wrestles with as they go through life. My question is, why stress about that now (or any time)? If you don't want kids, that's OK, but you shouldn't tie your GF down if that's something she wants before turning 30. The truth is there are lots more fish in the sea for both of you. You just have to get out of that comfort zone a bit and face some changes in your lives and trust you will have opportunities to create something better. I never had kids. Partly because I wasn't that interested and partly because of the way life unfolded. In my case, Don Ro hit it on the nail head about parents modeling life for their children. Both my parents were terrible models, and I think that dampened my interest in the first place. I'm sure you know your ideas about life will change as you progress, just like you can look back and see how lots of your ideas have changed since you were younger. Just let that happen naturally. If later on, you don't want to have kids, that's OK. If later on you change your mind, that's OK too.

I've heard that statement before, but I really don't get it.

In my experience, the opposite is true.

There are many good times to have kids. For example, a couple that has been married 5+ years, are finished with schooling, have been working in their jobs for years and have a steady income. That sounds like a good time to have kids.

One more thing that I'd like to add.

You seem like a pretty intelligent, self-aware, well-spoken guy. Society needs more people like you to breed, and fewer Octomoms.

Don't do it for yourself, do it for your country! :D

Thanks for the compliment.

I feel I would probably be a good father. The kids I do interact with, I'm good with. I have a dog, that I love dearly. He respects me, obeys me, loves me, and is loyal to me over anyone else.

Can't be that different than raising a kid, right? All of his traits are things that I taught him since I raised him from a puppy.

Fortunately, his toys all fit into one basket, he craps in one spot outside, and all he charges me for is food and vet bills.

Maybe I have commitment issues. I can't see not having my girlfriend in my life, but I do have a hard time saying "I want to be with you forever". Not to discredit our relationship or my feelings for her, but forever is a long time. I never want to sell my first car either, but I suppose it is possible that one day I might.

The way I heard it was 'if you wait till you can afford kids you'll never have them'.

If you really don't want to then very simply don't.

Moses' data is correct and follows my own experience where we did spend quite a bit to get her knocked up with #2. My wife was over 40 when #2 came to be.

I still have moments where I resent the responsibility but I think that most men feel that occasionally. I know that my father, while a great dad whom I adored being with as a kid had been trapped by the times and getting his girlfriend knocked up young.

You sound pretty sure you don't want to do it.

The ones of us who ended up with kids and honestly didn't want them or weren't already committed to the relationship usually end up divorced and supporting.

My wife did surprise me with wanting to be a stay at home mom after a couple of years and that was a huge blow to our income. I worked harder to get into a better paying position so that I could instead work smarter. It worked out and now I really don't want her going back to work until the younger is in 5th or 6th grade.

There you go, you've answered your question.

Do the right thing, which unfortunately is not the same thing as the easy or expedient thing.

While you're perfect for each other in your 20s, it doesn't sound like your long term goals and wants match.

You two are just wasting each others' time if neither of you see that changing anytime soon.

And if you really really don't want kids then take action and insure it doesn't happen. Get snipped and be free from worry and "accidents".

PPOT Father/Husbands- Did you want to have get married/have kids?
 

You can't predict how your own feelings (much less hers) might change in the future. I've posted about this ad nauseum but IMHO it's why promises like "I'll love you forever" or "till death do us part" are disingenuous and one would be foolish to believe them. You can only ever speak to how you feel NOW.

My personal advice is to let things play out. If she starts pressing you for marriage, RUN don't walk away. She should respect the fact that you're happy and that you might be open to the idea of children someday without laying the pressure on.

Also keep in mind that the biggest thing that can destroy a marriage is children and what they can do unintentionally (added stress and worry, complete shift in priorities, etc.) Kids are great but they WILL change your relationship and oftentimes it's not for the better. They radically change a woman's brain chemistry (well-documented, start by reading "The Female Brain") and can alter a man's as well.

Be happy in today. Don't sweat tomorrow too much. It comes too fast as it is all by itself. Don't put yourself in a position where (1) you'll be forced to become someone you're not* or (2) where you might lose everything that's important to you in a divorce**

Best of luck.

* = that's not the same thing as realizing potential you never knew you had. Very difficult to tell them apart but if you're like most men, you're biologically wired to be a fine father. A hint is if you worry about what kind of father you'd be, you'll probably be fine. It's the ones that don't worry / don't care that are most often the problems.

** = including the kids (as well as the obvious things like money, future earnings, cars, houses, retirement plans, etc.) Men NEVER win. Ever. Do a search - I and others have posted exhaustively about this.

PPOT Father/Husbands- Did you want to have get married/have kids?
 

Yup. I think right now it isn't even the question of kids. Relationship comes before kids. If you don't have a strong relationship, the kids don't have a standing chance.

Did you ever think you having kids doesn't even sound good to you because you haven't found the woman to make them with? I get the diaper, stroller, waking up in the middle of the night thing doesn't sound appealing to you and let's be honest here, parents hate the sound of that too. I am not a guy but have a lot of guy friends so observing from the outside, it seemed like when they were young, it never crossed their mind or was even appealing because a) they just wanted to date and have fun b) having a kid or marriage for that matter would crimp their style of traveling, riding dirt bikes, spending money on beer. But once they started to slow down because of the natural progression of life, they started to see things differently. Not the marriage/baby thing but spending their money and time on different things. And forget about it when they found THE GIRL. It's not that she forced them to give it all (because in reality, if a girl makes you give up your passions, and vice versa, she probably isn't the one), but rather they wanted it all... With her. And all of a sudden, they wanted kids. THEIR kids. Not somebody else's bratty kids but their own. Something that is a part of them. I think when you find the gal, you will know what I am talking about.

But some people just don't want to have kids. And that's cool. Find a woman out there that doesn't want any. You would be surprised how many out there don't want kids. I have several girlfriends that don't want kids and they are seen as weird.
In the mean time, don't be one of those guys. Let her go if you care about her at all. Let her have her chance and honestly, give yourself the chance to find what you really deserve to experience. Love. It's a good thing. Good luck to you.

Respectfully, this is one of the prime reasons the divorce rate is so high.

TV and movies tell us that marriage, love and relationships are and should be based on "feelings."

Well, if that's one's mindset, it's going to be very, very difficult to have a long term, happy, successful marriage.

Why? Because "feelings" change. They just do. They are often fleeting. That's the nature of feelings. This is especially true in long-term relationships.

Staying married, successfully and long term, is a CHOICE, in combination with action.

So, it is meaningful to say "I'll love you forever," or "til death do us part." You can always have the character to CHOOSE to make those things true. It's when both sides of a married couple do that, where you end up with long term, successful marriage.

Absolutely, I agree.. I guess that comment come from the fact that kids will get you tired, cost money, take a lot of time,etc. Note: I'm not questioning the reward of raising a family. For me has been the best thing in life..

I don't disagree. It's far too easy to say "till inconvenience or boredom do us part".

There is very little incentive for a woman to stay married. She can get all the benefits (almost exclusive time with / custody of the kids, free house, free money, etc. and doesn't have to deal with keeping some guy happy). By contrast a guy has a lot of incentive to stay married since he's the one with the most to lose.

thank you for that...

snagged it long ago from a book..

'if my last words aren't I love you..
it's because I didn't get the time...'

I would walk into hell with a smile for her...
and you will wish you were there already....
should you harm her..


Rika

It's actually much worse than that. In 15 years there is a 50% chance she will be unable to have a baby. He can father children till he's 90. Nature doesn't play fair.

She has made it clear. She wants a husband and children. Every single day he stays with the girl he is stealing her youth and potentially her dreams. It's incredibly selfish to stay in a relationship under those circumstances.

I didn't read all of the replies but thought I would share my recent experience.


As some of you may know, I walked away from my job last week. My reasoning is to be a stay at home Dad for our 2 kids. They are in school but my son needs extra attention due to learning difficulties, Aspbergers, ADHD, etc.

In my former marriage I had a stepdaughter that I didn't get along with. We thought getting married would solve everything. Pffft. It didn't do anything but make it more crappy. Luckily, we both saw the light and divorced amicably.

I met my second(and last) wife when I was 31, landed promotion, and moved away from my hometown. I knew after our first date that I was going to marry her. She was/is everthing I wanted in a woman. Neither one of us had kids but knew we wanted them when the time was right. We got married in 2001 and my son was born in 2003. My wife had 3 miscarriages before that. (We learned to keep the pregnancy secret until after 9 weeks.) When we thought kids were never going to happen for us, it was devastating.

My daughter arrived in 2006, sort of unplanned but not really. I was happy with 1 kid and didn't really know what I would do with a little girl.

I'm 47 now and I wouldn't change the way my wife and I planned(as much as can be) the building of our life together. It's much different now with 2 kids and me not working but we have survived all that has come our way and will continue because we work TOGETHER for the good of our family.

My point is that you still have many years to have kids, if you choose. If you meet the right girl for you, your mindset may change without you even noticing. It's hard to describe but when it's right you will feel it in your heart. For me it was a feeling that I got, and still do, when my wife talks to me or I think about her.