Pats already accused of cheating!

[Z-man]

Originally Posted by wdfifteen

I don't really have a dog in this fight, but you're going off the rails here Z. The guy is talking about air pressure and temperature. Any reasonable person would understand that in this context "eventually" means the time it takes for the ball to cool from room temperature to field temperature.

I guess I've been working for a German company too long. In Germany there is no "eventually." "approximately," or "sort-of"

What I find funny is that they are quoting a physics professor to tell us what everyone in the world knows: if a ball gets cold, the psi will drop and it will be softer. That guy should at least throw up some vague mathematical equation that can't be easily understood to add credence to his statements, like jyl did agove...

Originally Posted by jyl

Of course we don't know how under inflated the balls were during the game.

I read somewhere that the pressure was 2 psi lower than the minimum 12.5 psi, that would indicate the measurement on the field was around 10.5. They're saying that was a 16% drop, or about 4 times the pressure drop you calculated. Hmm....

It doesn't really matter - and I guess I am a victim of being spoon fed this nonsense the media is hyping. But I gotta admit - it gives me some pleasure to poke fun at the Pats! Rex Ryan would be proud....

-Z

[Lapkritis]

They're reviewing video tape etc from security systems on premise. Anyone's guess at this point what the outcome is...

I would bet the balls presented for inspection aren't the same ones that make it to the field for game time. Would be nice to get a little closure from the league on the matter. If they intentionally cheated - no matter if they needed it or not to thump these teams- penalize them. If they didn't intentionally cheat or manipulate and it was officials oversight/old comfy game balls that were approved but low, then penalize the crew member who is in charge of that oversight. Either way, league needs to kill the topic before game week as the problem is a shadow that's only growing for the league.

[Typ616]

Originally Posted by jyl

The temperature factor could explain the balls being under inflated during the game if they were inflated to the bare legal minimum before the game, in a warm room. Maybe some equipment guy figured that was okay - get them as soft as possible, as long as they pass inspection.

That's what I thought originally with my car tires analogy (sunny side tires are 2psi higher than the shady side).

I can't do that kind of math anymore to see if that explains enough of it, but if the Pats ball was inflated at bare legal minimum in a very warm room (with or without malice), and the Colt's was inflated at the highest legal max in a cold room... you might get exactly the result we got, and it's legal... the intent may or may not have been cheating, but it's actually effing clever if they did that... Not sure the math works though.

But I can respect "playing with the rules with science" - not flat out taking air out, that's cheating...

[jyl]

I don't have a preference between the teams. The Seahawks are a PacNW team so I kind of favor them, but I fear the Seattle folks will really be insufferable if they repeat so I kind of favor the Patriots . . .

[scottmandue]

Now they are talking about benching Brady... that would suck on so many levels.

[snbush67]

Flexball.....appropriate. Great advertising for Gillete.

[BE911SC]

Originally Posted by jyl

I don't have a preference between the teams. The Seahawks are a PacNW team so I kind of favor them, but I fear the Seattle folks will really be insufferable if they repeat so I kind of favor the Patriots . . .

Fans of winning teams are always insufferable. We Americans are obnoxious gloaters and we love to rub it in. 49er fans were insufferable in the '80s (and ever since) after the team emerged from decades of terrible performance. "Raider Nation" is massively insufferable. (Don't they know their team sucks?) I started being sick of the Cowboys in the late '70s when someone coined the dickish "America's Team" moniker. So yeah, if the Seahawks win a second SB then yeah, the fan behavior will be really obnoxious. When the 'hawks started winning a few years ago I started saying, somewhat sarcastically, that I don't want Seattle to be ruined by having a winning NFL team. America. We hate losers and are obnoxious gloaters when we win.

[Shaun @ Tru6]

Who is going to play Tom Brady in the movie?

[Jim Garfield]

Originally Posted by Shaun 84 Targa

Who is going to play Tom Brady in the movie?

Well, Osama bin Ladin, Hitler, and Mussolini are all gone Shaun, so how about that handsome devil who is the head of ISIS?

This whole thing is pretty ridiculous, must have been a slow week for real news. It is good motivation to piss off the Patriots and get them fired up for the SB though.....

[Shaun @ Tru6]

Well played Sir!

[BE911SC]

Richard Sherman: No One Will Be Suspended For 'Deflategate,' But My Teammate Would Be For Gold Shoes?

[jyl]

An error in my math - potentially significant.

P pressure in the ideal gas law is absolute pressure. Our pressure gauges read relative pressure, that is, relative to atmospheric pressure of 14.7 psi. So a football for which the gauge reads "12.5 psi" is actually at 27.2 psi absolute ( = 14.7 +12.5). Reduce that by 4% by moving the football from 75 F to 55 F, the pressure goes to 26.11 psi absolute (= 27.2 x 0.96). Subtract atmospheric pressure, and the gauge will read 11.4 psi (= 26.1 - 14.7). So, potentially a full 1.1 psi drop on the pressure gauge (= 12.5 - 11.4). Or a bit less, since the football has some tiny bit of elasticity.

Looks like the Patriots have done some experiments. I assume the NFL has too. http://espn.go.com/boston/nfl/story/_/id/12222029/bill-belichick-says-new-england-patriots-followed-every-rule-preparation-footballs

Originally Posted by jyl

The temperature factor could explain the balls being under inflated during the game if they were inflated to the bare legal minimum before the game, in a warm room. Maybe some equipment guy figured that was okay - get them as soft as possible, as long as they pass inspection.

But the magnitude of pressure drop wouldn't be very large. 75 F is 297 K, 55 F is 285 K, 297 to 285 is a 4% drop, that means the pressure in pascals would drop about 4%. Converting to psi, if the pressure was 12.5 psi at 75 F, it would drop to 12.0 psi at 55 F.

Of course we don't know how under inflated the balls were during the game.

Edit: FYI, the formula is PV = nrT, the "ideal gas law" familiar to every physics student

P is pressure in pascals
V is volume
T is temperature in kelvin (K)
nr are constants

Assume V volume is constant which is approximately true, a football isn't very elastic (not like a balloon), at least at the range of pressures we're talking about. Then P pressure will change proportional to T temperature - if you are using the correct units, which is why you have to convert Farenheit to Kelvin and pascals to psi.

[Lapkritis]

I'm not the least bit surprised that it was all legal... Nothing different than the reporting receivers on the O-line they've been doing. They use intelligence; knowledge and competence of the rules to find advantages where their competition is ignorant. The only people who don't appreciate that level of competition are the losers/haters.

[cabmandone]

“I’ve tried to wrap my head around it, too. I’ve done that and I’m trying to move past that, because I continue to try to rehash things. I personalized a lot of things and thought this was all about me, and my feelings got hurt.”

We should all send him a card to brighten his day. Poor guy

[BE911SC]

Originally Posted by cabmando

“I’ve tried to wrap my head around it, too. I’ve done that and I’m trying to move past that, because I continue to try to rehash things. I personalized a lot of things and thought this was all about me, and my feelings got hurt.”

We should all send him a card to brighten his day. Poor guy

Did Brady say that? BWA-HAHAHAHAHA! Big baby. Yes, very good QB too, no (real) argument there but what a dumb thing to say.

[cabmandone]

Originally Posted by BE911SC

Did Brady say that? BWA-HAHAHAHAHA! Big baby. Yes, very good QB too, no (real) argument there but what a dumb thing to say.

Yes, that is a quote from Tom Brady. I nearly cried when I read what it had done to that poor broken shell of a man. I nearly jumped in my car and headed to the Hallmark store to find him a card to make him feel better but then I remembered, he's crazy rich from playing a game and has a HOT wife so he doesn't have it that bad.

[Tobra]

Originally Posted by Typ616

That's what I thought originally with my car tires analogy (sunny side tires are 2psi higher than the shady side).

That may be true, but they started out at 2-3 times the PSI. "The pressure dropped that much because it was cold," sorry, that dog won't hunt.

They cheat as a matter of course, it would appear, even when they do not need to do so. I am not interested in watching the Superbowl this year, don't care to watch either team that is in it.

[Lapkritis]

To be fair, a couple guys (such as Troy Aikman) made it personal in the media. Troy should have waited for the findings before vocalizing his own judgement but now he just looks like an envious ass. One hall-of-famer putting down the next is a dick move; same shame to Don Shula. "If you can't say something nice then don't say anything at all."

[emcon5]

[stomachmonkey]

Originally Posted by Tobra

That may be true, but they started out at 2-3 times the PSI. "The pressure dropped that much because it was cold," sorry, that dog won't hunt.

They cheat as a matter of course, it would appear, even when they do not need to do so. I am not interested in watching the Superbowl this year, don't care to watch either team that is in it.

It was 2 lbs higher PSI not 2-3 times the PSI. 1/2 - 1/3rd they would have been flat as pancakes.