Pats already accused of cheating!

[jrj3rd]

Originally Posted by jyl

An error in my math - potentially significant.

P pressure in the ideal gas law is absolute pressure. Our pressure gauges read relative pressure, that is, relative to atmospheric pressure of 14.7 psi. So a football for which the gauge reads "12.5 psi" is actually at 27.2 psi absolute ( = 14.7 +12.5). Reduce that by 4% by moving the football from 75 F to 55 F, the pressure goes to 26.11 psi absolute (= 27.2 x 0.96). Subtract atmospheric pressure, and the gauge will read 11.4 psi (= 26.1 - 14.7). So, potentially a full 1.1 psi drop on the pressure gauge (= 12.5 - 11.4). Or a bit less, since the football has some tiny bit of elasticity.

Looks like the Patriots have done some experiments. I assume the NFL has too. Bill Belichick says New England Patriots 'followed every rule' in preparation of footballs - ESPN Boston

Think you need to redo your math again. Atmospheric pressure is also temp dependent. the percentage applies to both your "constant" and the ball pressure....so you were right the first time.

[Lapkritis]

It's fuzzy math unless we get a materials specialist in here to talk about elasticity of the equation as well. What method do they use to check the pressure? If they're putting a needle into the ball through the fill hole then they could be letting air out when they extract the needle as well following the test. This would have to play a role if they're right on the edge.

Also, looks like they're homing in on the scape goat:
Report: Patriots Locker Room Attendant ‘Strong Person Of Interest’ In DeflateGate | New England Patriots | NESN.com

[stomachmonkey]

Originally Posted by jrj3rd

Think you need to redo your math again. Atmospheric pressure is also temp dependent. the percentage applies to both your "constant" and the ball pressure....so you were right the first time.

It would all depend on whether the refs used an absolute or relative pressure gauge.

Absolute then 1st math was correct.

Relative and 2nd math was correct.

[cabmandone]

Can we waterboard Brady and Belichick to get to the bottom of this? Maybe toss in the ball boy for good measure.

[jyl]

Originally Posted by stomachmonkey

It would all depend on whether the refs used an absolute or relative pressure gauge.

Absolute then 1st math was correct.

Relative and 2nd math was correct.

I think common gauges are relative. Since they don't read 14.7 psi when not connected to a ball.

[stomachmonkey]

Originally Posted by jyl

I think common gauges are relative. Since they don't read 14.7 psi when not connected to a ball.

Correct.

They are zero'd at 14.7

An absolute gauge typically requires the user to actively zero it.

[speeder]

Quote de Tobra

That may be true, but they started out at 2-3 times the PSI. "The pressure dropped that much because it was cold," sorry, that dog won't hunt.



They cheat as a matter of course, it would appear, even when they do not need to do so. I am not interested in watching the Superbowl this year, don't care to watch either team that is in it.

It was 2 lbs higher PSI not 2-3 times the PSI. 1/2 - 1/3rd they would have been flat as pancakes.

Pretty sure that he was referring to the tire example that gained 2 lbs on the sunny side as being 3 times the psi, (making a 2 lb loss or gain relatively much smaller), not the footballs being 2-3 times the psi.

At least that is how I read his post.

[madmmac]

Brady and Bill sounded a whole lot smarter and less guilty when they didn't talk about it.

[sammyg2]

Originally Posted by cabmando

Yes, that is a quote from Tom Brady. I nearly cried when I read what it had done to that poor broken shell of a man. I nearly jumped in my car and headed to the Hallmark store to find him a card to make him feel better but then I remembered, he's crazy rich from playing a game and has a HOT wife so he doesn't have it that bad.

Wow, you are really a very emotional person. Huh.


This will be Brady's 6th superbowl.
Most quarterbacks dream of 1 and don't get it.

Brady has won 3 superbowls.
Very few hall of famers can say that.
Brady has won 2 sb MVP awards.
Brady has won 2 NFL MVP awards
ten pro-bowls
Again, how many other players have done that?
Not many.

He is in the top 5 QBs to have EVER played the game.

EDIT: and he gets all the hot chicks, that bastage!@!!!!!!!

[BE911SC]

Okay, who called it?

Looks Like The NFL Will Try To Pin 'Deflategate' On A Locker Room Attendant

[red-beard]

Take a look at this photo and story on the inflation of balls. That does not look like a precision inflation nor calibrated system. And unless the exact same gauge was used, this whole discussion is subject to significant error.



Deflategate: Video showing how officials check pressure of game balls | The MMQB with Peter King

Also, I read somewhere today that most of the balls were 11.5, one was 10.5. 11.5 psig is possible from a temp drop from 70F to 50F, since they were inflated indoors and played with outside.

For the poster talking about the change in air pressure, the barometric pressure dropped from 29.96 inH2O @ 12:53PM to 29.75 inH2O @ 6:53PM, while the outside temp stayed the same at 52F.

If the inside temp was 70F and a ball was inflated to 12.5 psig, that would be 530R and 27.2 psia.

52F = 512R. So 27.2*512/530=26.27 psia=11.57 psig

Now, depending on the prior inflation of the footballs balls initially, the compressing of air COULD have raised the internal temp of the ball beyond the 70F.

70F again is 530R. Inflating to 12.5 psig from atmospheric, the temp of air going into the ball could be as high as 530R*27.2/14.7=980.7R=520F. I doubt it was THAT hot, since the compressor has a heat sink. But no doubt the air inside the ball was above 70F.

So YES, it is entirely possible they could have inflated balls to 12.5 psig and they dropped to 10.5 during the game.

[cabmandone]

Originally Posted by sammyg2

Wow, you are really a very emotional person. Huh.


This will be Brady's 6th superbowl.
Most quarterbacks dream of 1 and don't get it.

Brady has won 3 superbowls.
Very few hall of famers can say that.
Brady has won 2 sb MVP awards.
Brady has won 2 NFL MVP awards
ten pro-bowls
Again, how many other players have done that?
Not many.

He is in the top 5 QBs to have EVER played the game.

EDIT: and he gets all the hot chicks, that bastage!@!!!!!!!

So great his coach had to SECRETLY tape the opposing teams defensive calls. If anything, the team around him made him "great" Matt Cassel looked like a great QB in that system. Who are you kidding? Top 5 ever?

[Z-man]

Red-beard: the geek is strong with you! You will go far young Jedi!

[Lapkritis]

Originally Posted by cabmando

So great his coach had to SECRETLY tape the opposing teams defensive calls. If anything, the team around him made him "great" Matt Cassel looked like a great QB in that system. Who are you kidding? Top 5 ever?

Hater identified.

So hater, explain his playoff record holding. Compare to the greats of your choosing. G'head. We'll wait while you read and weep.

[cabmandone]

Originally Posted by Lapkritis

Hater identified.

So hater, explain his playoff record holding. Compare to the greats of your choosing. G'head. We'll wait while you read and weep.

Not a hater, I think he's a good QB but the reality is, his team was caught cheating and for that his legacy will always be tarnished. That's not "hating" that's reality whether a fanboy such as yourself wants to admit it or not?

Ben Roethilsberger, 10 years in the league, 2 super bowl trophies, within 13,000 total yds of Brady with 4 less years and his first 4 were on predominantly run oriented teams. BUT Ben is also a product of a good system just like Brady. Keep in mind too, that Brady has benefited from arguably one of the worst conferences in the league year after year.

Joe Montana, Terry Bradshaw, hell... Troy Aikman has 3 super bowl wins. Top 5 of an era maybe but top 5 ever? Laughable.

[Lapkritis]

Go read the stats and then re-write your response.

[cabmandone]

Originally Posted by Lapkritis

Go read the stats and then re-write your response.

I don't need to. I was looking at the stats as I wrote. Everything I wrote is correct except for the yardage between Ben and Tom. It is about 14,000 yds separating the two. Ben threw for 800 more yds than Tom this year. So that must mean Ben is top 4 ever right?

Like I said, he' a good QB but top 5 EVER is laughable. The league was there before the super bowl was. He's one of the best in the super bowl era but not top 5 "ever"

[Lapkritis]

Let me help you. You seem to be internet challenged.

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/NFL_starting_quarterback_playoff_records

[Lapkritis]

Nice edit.

[cabmandone]

Originally Posted by Lapkritis

Let me help you. You seem to be internet challenged.

NFL starting quarterback playoff records - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Bart Starr, Otto Grahm. 5 NFL and 10 AAFL championships. Montanna 4, Bradshaw, 4, Aikman 3.

Now go away fanboy.