bums camping under freeways???

[rcooled]

Originally Posted by emcon5

Just curious, were you in the military?

Yes, as a matter of fact...US Army, 82nd Airborne Division, '69-'71. This was back in the days of the military draft. We had quite a broad cross-section of society represented in the Army at that time...everyone from thugs given the choice of joining up or going to jail, to guys with advanced degrees who were drafted as soon as their student deferments ran out.

Originally Posted by john70t

I thought voluntary military service was supposed to intake the-best-of-the-best.

Military recruiters work under a quota system. They need to sign a certain number of new recruits each month to balance out the numbers who are concluding their term of service. They don't always have the luxury of taking only "the best of the best".

Originally Posted by 911_Dude

Not true. The all volunteer force has created the highest educated force in our history. The days of high school drop out joining the Army are over. You have to have at least a GED.

True that the Army might now require at least a HS diploma or GED to join. But given the state of the educational system in this country, that's not saying a whole lot. Granted, there are a lot of young people who are joining the military today who do make the most of it. They chose an MOS that provides training that can translate into a civilian career after their discharge, and they go on to live productive and responsible lives after leaving the service. These are not the people we're talking about here. If you have personal 'issues' before joining the military, and fail to make the right choices while there, you're not going to be well prepared for life on the outside...despite the fact that you have a HS diploma or GED. These are the people who slip thru the cracks and wind up on the street.
And as stated before, it's also very easy, and sometimes very convenient, to claim that you're a vet when you're really not. The public has no way of knowing one way or another.

[2porscheguy]

Originally Posted by GH85Carrera

Most of my friends received a car paid for by their parents. Some of them got brand new cars as a high school graduation present. I got a $100 watch & a pen & pencil set. Some of the rich kids had many things I could not have because my parents were mean and cruel and only provided me a loving environment & comfortable stable place to live with free room and board and my dad did pay for my car insurance until I turned 21. Mom was mean and often only bought me clothes from the thrift shop not the fancy brand names some of my friends had.

Dad told me if I want to drive a car I better find a job so I can pay for my own car. He provided me an interest free loan with liberal terms for repayment. I had a part time job as right after I turned 16 I got my driver's license. Since then I have only been out of a job for 5 days total.

Yep, my parents were mean, and they were the best parents any child could ever hope for. I wish I could thank them again.

Same here Glen! In fact you fared way better on the HS graduation present than I did!

When my son graduated last year, he asked me what I got as a present from my parents for HS graduation. I said "Son, do you see this mark on my back, behind my right shoulder?" "Ya...sorta?" "That's what I got! A pat on the back from my dad!"

But yes, if my dad was still around, I'd thank him time and again as well!

Back OT, because of our cold winters up here on the Canadian tundra, we have many homeless people that set themselves up for the night downtown on top of building vents to stay warm...not so much under freeways.

[gacook]

Originally Posted by rcooled

Yes, as a matter of fact...US Army, 82nd Airborne Division, '69-'71. This was back in the days of the military draft. We had quite a broad cross-section of society represented in the Army at that time...everyone from thugs given the choice of joining up or going to jail, to guys with advanced degrees who were drafted as soon as their student deferments ran out.


Military recruiters work under a quota system. They need to sign a certain number of new recruits each month to balance out the numbers who are concluding their term of service. They don't always have the luxury of taking only "the best of the best".


True that the Army might now require at least a HS diploma or GED to join. But given the state of the educational system in this country, that's not saying a whole lot. Granted, there are a lot of young people who are joining the military today who do make the most of it. They chose an MOS that provides training that can translate into a civilian career after their discharge, and they go on to live productive and responsible lives after leaving the service. These are not the people we're talking about here. If you have personal 'issues' before joining the military, and fail to make the right choices while there, you're not going to be well prepared for life on the outside...despite the fact that you have a HS diploma or GED. These are the people who slip thru the cracks and wind up on the street.
And as stated before, it's also very easy, and sometimes very convenient, to claim that you're a vet when you're really not. The public has no way of knowing one way or another.

No disrespect meant, sir, but you do not know what you're talking about.

As a person who was an Army Recruiter for 4 years (within the past decade--not 60s-70s), I can attest that yes, we did have a "quota." However, we had to find high quality individuals (when I was a recruiter, the Army was not accepting individuals with a GED, unless they had at least 30 hours of college along with it) to fill that quota. If you had a criminal record, I could not recruit you. If you were a drugee, I could not recruit you. If you were fat, or had any medical problems, I could not recruit you. I can assure you, we have extremely high standards for who can be accepted into the Army, and the Air Force has even higher standards.

[afterburn 549]

1970 the draft was still on, if it breathed it was good.

[gacook]

In regards to seeing bums, I suppose it depends on where you live. I live in a "small city" that pretty much exists because of the Army base here. A couple years ago, we had 1 bum who you'd see pushing his shopping cart around town. Now, we're up to about 4-5.

[gacook]

Originally Posted by afterburn 549

1970 the draft was still on, if it breathed it was good.

I know, Afterburn; however the gentleman was claiming that TODAY's army is worse than during the draft. That is inaccurate.

[afterburn 549]

Army as i understand is pretty picky nowadays.
I am sure they should lower their standards and restart the draft. Get the community spirit going again. (nation wide )

[rcooled]

Originally Posted by gacook

No disrespect meant, sir, but you do not know what you're talking about.

No disrespect taken. My comments were based on conservations that I had with a recruiter some time back. Actually, I'm glad to hear that current soldiers have to measure up to higher standards than in previous times.
Unfortunately, this only adds to the mystery of why so many vets are now found among the ranks of the homeless.

[gacook]

Originally Posted by rcooled

No disrespect taken. My comments were based on conservations that I had with a recruiter some time back. Actually, I'm glad to hear that current soldiers have to measure up to higher standards than in previous times.
Unfortunately, this only adds to the mystery of why so many vets are now found among the ranks of the homeless.

I think part of this problem was touched on earlier. Many soldiers join, decide to make it a career, and then due to politics (drastic cutbacks), find themselves out of a job, with very little notice. Job market back home isn't all that great--especially if you were a tank driver, infantryman, etc--and they can't find work.

The way the Army is doing its cutbacks now is baffling, to an extent. I recently got out (again--originally got off Active Duty in '05, then joined the Reserves in '11). We had a Master Sergeant (E8) in our batallion that got "selected" during the downsizing. Crazy thing is, this guy was the absolute model for a perfect soldier. Big in his community, great career, never had any negative reports, etc. Enthusiastic about his job; often volunteered for extra missions...you get the point. And once you're selected, there's nothing anybody can do about it. Our general tried looking into what he could do to retain this guy, and there was nothing.

[911_Dude]

Originally Posted by rcooled

No disrespect taken. My comments were based on conservations that I had with a recruiter some time back. Actually, I'm glad to hear that current soldiers have to measure up to higher standards than in previous times.
Unfortunately, this only adds to the mystery of why so many vets are now found among the ranks of the homeless.

If anyone could answer that they could make a lot of money with a government contract. The broad answer is- being in a combat environment for a year or more and then getting released into "the real world" doesnt mix for everyone out there. The system has failed them. But for the real fix, it is no simple solution, Id be willing to bet.

[john70t]

Looking back: Difference between tramp, hobo and a bum - MyPlainview.com: News

[herr_oberst]

Originally Posted by afterburn 549

Army as i understand is pretty picky nowadays.
I am sure they should lower their standards and restart the draft. Get the community spirit going again. (nation wide )

I hope Country Joe comes out of retirement to lead us in a few community spirit songs to celebrate selective service!

Happy Times!

[fintstone]

I have never met a homeless vet...but have met many that claimed to be. Everyone knows the vet stereotype will get you a few bucks extra from suckers.

The standards are pretty high in the military. Briefly, in the mid 70's after the draft and the GI Bill went away, they were not as picky. As Gacook said, for decades, they have needed to be high school grad, no drugs, no trouble with police, not overweight or with medical issues. Most of them leave with at least two years of college and a skill. many have degrees.

Anyone living under a bridge that is not physically or mentally handicapped likely brought it on themselves.

[look 171]

Ones I see around here are pretty beat up like they have been on hard drugs for a long time. I talked to a couple of ROTC instructors that were Vets about the trauma and inability to function once solders are back home. His first responds was "don't forget about the thousands the came back and have a normal live. They have it because they choose to, For those that are messed up because they want to be messed up. War or no war, they are going to be messed up anyway."

[afterburn 549]

There are societies drop outs .
They do not hold on to the coat strings and tails.
They want out and stay far away from everyone as best they can.
There were a few living in alaska near Juneau.
I have no idea how they survived in tents and less!
Never to be found on the street corner.
Some said they were vets, IDK.

[aigel]

There are plenty of urban campers in the Bay Area. San Fran is really bad and it can be very annoying when visiting the city, just because they are all pan-handling and some of them are disturbing to children. Luckily I don't like the city much anyway and am drawn to nature on weekends instead.

IMHO nobody in their right mind wants to be camping 24/7/365. The majority of these folks are mentally ill. If you push them out of one place, they will move to another. Not sure what the solution is.

If I were to become a bum, I'd also come to SoCal or HY. Weather is perfect for camping. I guess most of them are sane enough to hop a train ...

G

[xfghth]

The numbers are growing, fast. There are 5-10 tents in some of these areas. Yeah I know not just Hispanics

[rcooled]

Originally Posted by aigel

If you push them out of one place, they will move to another. Not sure what the solution is.

You know, the marketing industry in this country can sell ice cubes to Eskimos, and easily convince the rest of us to spend our hard-earned money to buy stuff that we didn't even know we needed. And with social media and data mining now at their disposal, their powers of persuasion are stronger than ever. Why can't these powerful tools be used to urge people to be responsible parents and to raise their children to become productive members of society? In other words, try to prevent people from falling by the wayside in the first place, instead of just throwing money at the problem after the fact. I realize that this would require a cooperative effort on the part of the government and the media, but even if moderately sucessful, it might be able to pay for itself with the savings in social welfare payouts further down the line. There have been successful campaigns used to convince people to stop smoking, to wear seat belts, to recycle trash, etc. Current campaigns are running to get people to quit texting while driving and to stop bullying among children. There's an orginazation called The Ad Council that's already partnering with advertising and government agencies, as well as with the private sector, to bring these messages to the public. If this effort could be stepped up, with positive messages presented in prime time and thru social media, the problems of homelessness and dependency might be significantly reduced.

[berettafan]

Originally Posted by Geary

There but for fortune may go you or I ..

Right on.


I had nothing to do with being born without serious mental issues.

The guy sleeping under a bridge had nothing to do with being born WITH serious mental issues.

NPR did a spot with a guy who wrote a book about homeless people. He talked about the pervasiveness (duh) of mental illness in the homeless community. He talked about how they find food, what they eat, medical issues they face....it was really something worth hearing. The site is acting up right now or I'd link it for you guys.

[GH85Carrera]

One of my friends grew up in a family with 6 brothers and two sisters. Her dad was an FBI agent. They had the typical loving home every kid deserves. All of her siblings were good students and had went to college and have good jobs except one of her brothers. He was the second youngest of the boys. At age 18 he left home and disappeared. They did not hear anything from him for over 20 years.

Even though the dad was an FBI agent it was illegal for him to look for his son with FBI channels so he would could not look. The dad had met a few good private detectives and hired one of them to see if they could find the missing son. He had moved to Seattle, changed his name and was a day laborer or street person. He had no interest in contacting the family and they left him alone. They have no idea what is going on with him.