More concerned about China than Greece

[cockerpunk]

Originally Posted by jyl

Hand over your guns.

No moving from VA to AZ, without getting (bribing?) permission.

Enjoy your emphysema and other lung diseases, and the other benefits of severe pollution.

that is not communism.

china is not a communist country anymore, and has not been for 20+ years.

[red-beard]

Originally Posted by creaturecat

"top down type of government" is the term "communist" no longer pc?

I'm not exactly sure WHAT to call them these days. But it is an authoritarian / technocratic type government. The fact that people don't work for the state anymore doesn't change this. It is one party rule.

[red-beard]

Originally Posted by cockerpunk

that is not communism.

china is not a communist country anymore, and has not been for 20+ years.

Fascist is pretty much closer

[BE911SC]

How about "Communo-capitalist." Communists to work the slave-labor and capitalists to profit from it. More specifically, communist military to keep the slaves from revolting.

It's small wonder American businesses envy the China model.

[pcardude]

Whatever red. Chinese people enjoy more freedom than we do here in the USA.

[creaturecat]

Originally Posted by pcardude

I'll never understand why people cheer at others misery. China does things their way and they have a right to. So wtfe

Parf this ****ty thread

China is a country.
Inanimate. ie. unable to feel misery.

[pcardude]

Originally Posted by creaturecat

China is a country.
Inanimate. ie. unable to feel misery.

Racist.

[pcardude]

Originally Posted by cockerpunk

that is not communism.

China is not a communist country anymore, and has not been for 20+ years.

+1

[wdfifteen]

Originally Posted by jyl

But communist countries, and otherwise authoritarian countries,

I'm glad you recognized a distinction. There are many authoritarian countries in the world, but not many that still espouse communism.

[BE911SC]

Originally Posted by pcardude

Chinese people enjoy more freedom than we do here in the USA.

Wow. Dwell on that statement for a few minutes.

[Rick Lee]

Originally Posted by jyl

I realize that many countries restrict private gun ownership far more than the US; we are unique in our gun culture.

But communist countries, and otherwise authoritarian countries, are especially restrictive - when your government depends on repressing the citizens, preventing them from having guns is a fundamental principle.

SoI thought it odd that you'd welcome living in such a society.

I don't consider Chinese people to be repressed at all. Plenty of them move away and then move back to China. In real communist countries people defected and never went back until the gov't. changed. No one ever left N. Korea or E. Germany and then decided to go back. People do it in China all the time and the Chinese gov't. is fine with it. There are no travel restrictions imposed by the Chinese gov't. on their people going to other countries (though, ironically, there is for going to Hong Kong).

Sure, there are certain groups in China the gov't. has a hard-on for. If you're part of Falun Gong or a Dalai Lama supporter, you'd better keep quiet about it. But it's not like the whole population is just waiting for the gov't. to fall or for an outside power to rescue them. I have never heard anyone in China talk like that.

If I were to move there, I'd have to give up considerable hobbies and lifestyle choices. I haven't decided on that yet, but, if I do move there, I will not try to carry on an American lifestyle there. That's a recipe for disappointment.

[Rick Lee]

Originally Posted by BE911SC

Wow. Dwell on that statement for a few minutes.

Maybe not more freedoms, but definitely different freedoms. China is not a nanny state and they have no desire to increase their role the every day lives of normal citizens. Anyone can smoke and do so anywhere. Anyone can buy booze and drink it anywhere. Anyone can buy or sell sex. If you slip and fall on the sidewalk, it's your problem, not the shop owner whose shop is on that section of the block. If you don't want to wear a motorcycle helmet, no one else cares. I know these things are totally alien to present-day Americans, but they are nonetheless freedoms. What I like most about China is that they don't preach to the world that they are the greatest country on Earth, though I think most of them feel that way. They don't claim the rest of the world wants to be like them (like the US does). That lack of arrogance is refreshing, IMHO.

[red-beard]

I wonder how things would be different if the Chinese had continued their sea dominance of the 1400's. The Spanish had NOTHING that could go up against the Chinese fleet.

[jyl]

Just don't try, in China, to
- Stop the local government from confiscating and bulldozing your house
- Compel a government official to enforce or obey a law or regulation that he doesn't want to
- Get an environmental, safety, or consumer protection law or standard enforced
- Defend yourself against a politically motivated criminal charge, legitimate or not
- Publicly organize opposition to a government position, whether over the internet or on the streets
- Compete against a better connected person for a valuable permit, government contract, license
- Invent anything and hope to maintain your rights to it
- Belong to certain religions or groups
- Etc etc

In the US, you have so many individual freedoms and rights, you can't even appreciate them. Want to organize a big anti-Obama demonstration? Go ahead. Is it freer in China? Have your Chinese friends go out on the streets carrying anti-Xi signs.

Sure, there is a lot of regulation in the U.S. Not being allowed to smoke in a restaurant, or hire a prostitute whenever you want, is pretty minor stuff, as far as encroachments on your liberty go.

[gordner]

China has heavily restricted public smoking in the last two years just FYI.

[pcardude]

Originally Posted by jyl

Just don't try, in China, to
- Stop the local government from confiscating and bulldozing your house
- Compel a government official to enforce or obey a law or regulation that he doesn't want to
- Get an environmental, safety, or consumer protection law or standard enforced
- Defend yourself against a politically motivated criminal charge, legitimate or not
- Publicly organize opposition to a government position, whether over the internet or on the streets
- Compete against a better connected person for a valuable permit, government contract, license
- Invent anything and hope to maintain your rights to it
- Belong to certain religions or groups
- Etc etc

In the US, you have so many individual freedoms and rights, you can't even appreciate them. Want to organize a big anti-Obama demonstration? Go ahead. Is it freer in China? Have your Chinese friends go out on the streets carrying anti-Xi signs.

Sure, there is a lot of regulation in the U.S. Not being allowed to smoke in a restaurant, or hire a prostitute whenever you want, is pretty minor stuff, as far as encroachments on your liberty go.

Nope.

[Rick Lee]

Originally Posted by gordner

China has heavily restricted public smoking in the last two years just FYI.

I haven't been back in four years and it was starting then. But I was told the signs are pretty much meaningless and just intended to get younger generations used to eventual bans. My father in-law completely ignored them everywhere and no one said a word to him. They had started clamping down on the public spitting in advance of the Beijing Olympics too.

[Cajundaddy]

Spitting, smoking, and motorcycle use are all being banned in major cities in China. Many basic Chinese freedoms are being eliminated every year even as pollution closes in. There are a lot of things I still like about it but change is happening rapidly.

I don't see the Chinese stock drop as a major threat to the US any more than Greece. The EU taxpayers will bear the Greece BK while Chinese citizens will primarily suffer the loss in equity markets.

[legion]

My house was just purchased by a Chinese investor. Last night we got a cash offer at asking price--an offer we couldn't refuse. Instead of a pre-approval, the offer included a bank statement. The buyer could afford a few houses at our price, and I wouldn't be surprised if he/she was on a shopping spree.

[BE911SC]

Originally Posted by Rick Lee

Maybe not more freedoms, but definitely different freedoms. China is not a nanny state and they have no desire to increase their role the every day lives of normal citizens. Anyone can smoke and do so anywhere. Anyone can buy booze and drink it anywhere. Anyone can buy or sell sex. If you slip and fall on the sidewalk, it's your problem, not the shop owner whose shop is on that section of the block. If you don't want to wear a motorcycle helmet, no one else cares. I know these things are totally alien to present-day Americans, but they are nonetheless freedoms. What I like most about China is that they don't preach to the world that they are the greatest country on Earth, though I think most of them feel that way. They don't claim the rest of the world wants to be like them (like the US does). That lack of arrogance is refreshing, IMHO.

Uhh, wow. Now dwell on that answer for a while.