Hitler's nukes?

[MRM]

Originally Posted by jamesnmlaw

"If Hitler had nukes, or had them within his grasp, he would have expenses all resources to develop them and would have used them. The fact that he didn't proves that he didn't have them."

Interesting logic. Herr Schicklgruber had poison gas and didn't use that on enemy armies. Not that I'm defending the little goose-stepping *******.

I was told that the reason Hitler didn't use chemical weapons was that the Allies let it be known that they had stockpiles too and would retaliate in kind if Hitler used chemical weapons. The Allies actually did not have chemical weapons, but Hitler didn't know that. Also, there are logistical problems with chemical weapons. You can't just spray it at your opponent. You have to have an effective delivery device that kills the other side but keeps the gas away from you. When you think of it, it wouldn't have been very practical for the Germans to use chemical the way the war was fought. It would have been easier as the Germans retreated. They could have left gas bombs behind. But even then, what real good would they have done? They would have killed people in the immediate area but they wouldn't have done any strategic or even tactical good.

Nukes on the other hand are decisive. Drop one by bomb, put one in a rocket, load one onto an airplane - now you have a delivery device and a payload that will cause massive destruction behind the other guy's lines.

If Hitler had nukes he would have used them. He just didn't have them.

[djmcmath]

MRM, I'm not sure I buy the delivery problem with chemical/biological weapons. After all, the Germans were dropping bombs into London, no? While I agree that a tactical use would have been challenging to get right, a less precise "Drop nastiness into civilian populations" would have been very demoralizing, at the least.

It also occurs to me that using chemical booby traps to cover a retreat would have been a pretty effective delaying tactic. The VC used much smaller booby traps on GI patrols in Vietnam with great success, forcing troops to move very slowly and having huge impact on morale. If the Germans had used chemical weapons on a medium to large scale to cover their retreat, it could have forced Allied troops to move much more slowly. As it was, we had a hard enough time holding the advance positions that we had taken by paratroopers, didn't we? It might not have taken too much of a slowdown to change things pretty dramatically.

Just playing armchair devil's advocate.

[LEAKYSEALS951]

Originally Posted by IROC

That picture above is from what was called the Low-Intensity Test Reactor. It was built around 1950 right in the middle of the Oak Ridge National Lab campus to check out different operational issues and to train operators. That picture appeared on the cover of the Scientific American magazine's October 1951 issue.

ORNL built and operated many reactors over the years (13 of them, I believe), including one designed to power an airplane. If you drive interstate 40 west of Knoxville in the winter time (no leaves on the trees) you can still see the giant towers they used to lift a reactor up in the air to measure radiation doses/shielding studies. Here's a picture of the reactor suspended in the air.. Crazy stuff back then:

Thanks for this info. It's like a radioactive edition of antiques roadshow! Sure enough, it is identical to that issue. Based on this, my wife and I are thinking he got this picture with his certificate as a general gift for his service. Probably given out to everyone. I had wondered how he got his hands on color film back then! Thanks again.

p.s.- to add a story ( I know this is becoming an Oak Ridge threadjack, but I will keep it short.) Oak Ridge was a dry town but people smuggled in liquor regularly. According to my wife, her grandfather would pick up liquor in nearby towns, hide it in the wheel wells, and drive back to oak ridge. He would then have my wife's mom (a kid at the time) come along. On the way back, he instructed her to pretend she was asleep in the backseat so the guards wouldn't do an in depth search of the car as they re-entered!

[IROC]

Another bit of useless trivia - I noticed the certificate above was issued by the Tennessee Eastman Company. Tennessee Eastman was ( and still is) a large chemical company in Kingsport, TN ( my hometown). Eastman only managed the lab for a very short time, so that is sort of a collector's item in more ways than one!

[afterburn 549]

Why was Hitler shipping tons of red mercury to Japan on his subs ?
Even if it was plain Merc there is no simple answer.
Then there is the sinking of the Estonia to consider too

[pcardude]

Originally Posted by afterburn 549

Why was Hitler shipping tons of red mercury to Japan on his subs ?
Even if it was plain Merc there is no simple answer.
Then there is the sinking of the Estonia to consider too

Good question considering Japan was fighting with WWI era weapons.

[pcardude]

A much more interesting topic is the unbelievable number of nukes that exist today. Crazy.

[IROC]

Originally Posted by pcardude

A much more interesting topic is the unbelievable number of nukes that exist today. Crazy.

Yep, despite talks of arms reduction, Y-12 is full speed ahead right now.

[red-beard]

Originally Posted by pcardude

Good question considering Japan was fighting with WWI era weapons.

The A6M Zero was a WWI weapon?

[red-beard]

Originally Posted by afterburn 549

Why was Hitler shipping tons of red mercury to Japan on his subs ?
Even if it was plain Merc there is no simple answer.
Then there is the sinking of the Estonia to consider too

Red Mercury? Seriously?

[Mark Henry]

Originally Posted by red-beard

Red Mercury? Seriously?

Pfffft
It's common knowledge that Hitler smuggled Red Mercury in Singer sewing machines.

[GH85Carrera]

Originally Posted by red-beard

Red Mercury? Seriously?

If red Mercury is mixed with dihydrogen monoxide it make a very deadly red fluid. It killed a lot of people in the Japanese tsunami and destroyed the Fukushima reactors!

[afterburn 549]

Lots of things I know comes from others as in read articles.
Red mercury, plain Merc, I dont know squat about. Only what I have read.
Even if it was plain jane mercury, it is a mystery as to why so much was headed for Japan.

[red-beard]

The "idea" of Red Mercury comes from some Pravda articles. There is talk that it was a honey pot to try to find people wanting to make nuclear weapons.

[GH85Carrera]

Yea, red Mercury does not exist. It is just a red herring.

[Steve Carlton]

They almost got the Ark of the Covenant. Fortunately, it didn't work out well for them.

[GH85Carrera]

Only because Indiana Jones was there to save the world!

[red-beard]

Originally Posted by GH85Carrera

Only because Indiana Jones was there to save the world!

No. It would have ended the same way, with or without Indiana Jones. The Nazi's would be melted

[Hawkeye's-911T]

Maybe a denouement of sorts: "and these atomic bombs which science burst upon the world that night were strange even to the men who used them"

Was HG Wells the first to think of the atom bomb? - BBC News

Cheers
JB

[MRM]

Here's a very nice article and book review about the man who planned the first raid on the Norweigien heavy water plant.

The Heavy Water War and the WWII Hero You Don't Know

The account of the actual commandos who hit the plant on skis is more exciting than any Bond thriller. I'll have to search around for articles recounting the first (Gunnerside) commando raid specifically.

This article comports with my understanding of Getmany's progress toward nukes. They may have been close on the theory end of things but they were light years away from production. They were light years ahead of the West in rocket technology though.