orlando shooting.....

[berettafan]

Originally Posted by Bill Douglas

About eight years ago I was talking with an elderly gentleman neighbour/friend who had been a NZ army soldier all his working life. I said thanks for your service. He fought in Vietnam, Korea, Malaysia and Borneo. He said "It's a different enemy these days. One all around us that we can't see." Phew, he didn't know how correct he would become.

But we CAN see this enemy. Why do we lie to ourselves and claim otherwise?

[tabs]

Originally Posted by berettafan

If it walks like a duck, quacks like a duck it is an Obama.

Fifu

[Porsche-O-Phile]

Originally Posted by berettafan

But we CAN see this enemy. Why do we lie to ourselves and claim otherwise?

Because it's not politically correct.

We all know who / what the problem is but we've been muzzled by political correctness to it.

Condolences to the families of those affected. So horrible and unnecessary.

[ficke]

Originally Posted by Alan A

It is about the target.
They are American.

Or French, Italian, etc. No where is immune from it.

Sad.

[fintstone]

Radical Islamic terrorism has always been a threat, but when we made the choice to allow ISIS to leisurely roll out of Syria and attack our allies in Iraq, we empowered them with the longevity, financial ability/reach and enough success for a plausible ability to form an Islamic state, and the stature/press to reach potential recruits worldwide. To make things worse, we are intentionally bringing 100 more potential recruits into the U.S. Every day while many more come across our insecure borders unchallenged. It was predictable...both here and in Europe, yet all seem surprised. Evil unchecked doesn't shrink...but matasticises.

[recycled sixtie]

What gets me is how do these perps prepare and not get detected. Apparently making these explosives makes for a lot of smell. There are personality changes in these bad people prior to the incidents. Do these perps rent houses? If so the landlord has the right to inspect the property with notice given. Bring in the sniffer dogs.

Mostly these incidents are happening in the US and France. True there was one attempt on Parliament Hill in Ottawa and one RCMP killed. I notice in the UK it is not happening.
Do they have a better surveillance system?

Obviously in the US you have the right to bear arms. Well then that comes with its problems too.

Anyways my condolences to all the relatives and sympathy to the injured. I am really surprised that these folks come out of the woodwork and do their bad stuff and nobody has any idea. In my neighborhood I pretty much know who is good and who is bad.

[masraum]

Originally Posted by sc_rufctr

My heart goes out to you all.

I can't understand why something isn't being done about this.

What do you propose we do?

Originally Posted by onewhippedpuppy

Absolutely sick. God be with all of those who lost loved ones or were otherwise hurt by this tragedy. It's not about the target, it's about the perpretators being of the exact same religious affiliation EVERY SINGLE TIME. Are we collectively as a society ever going to honestly confront the enemy in front of us?

Originally Posted by berettafan

But we CAN see this enemy. Why do we lie to ourselves and claim otherwise?

Originally Posted by Porsche-O-Phile

Because it's not politically correct.

We all know who / what the problem is but we've been muzzled by political correctness to it.

Condolences to the families of those affected. So horrible and unnecessary.

So, what do you propose we do? What do you think is the problem? Are you saying that ALL Muslim's are bad/dangerous? Are you thinking that we should ban/deport them all? How do we fix a problem when the problem is a group of zealous nutters, that are mostly of a specific religion? In almost every group, you could probably find a small minority who are bad or dangerous. How do you target that minority?

Granted, the Muslim extremists are VERY extreme and dangerous.

The father of the shooter is saying that this isn't religious, but was caused by his family having to see a couple of gay guys kissing in Miami and that angered the shooter. And my guess is he was angry because his religion tells him that being gay is really bad. ISIS deals with gays in a very extreme manor because of religion. This guy had to come up with the reason somewhere, so I do think this act was due to religion.

But back to all of your comments. How do we fix the problem, when we really don't know exactly who the problems are?

[techweenie]

Amazing to me when people claim they can visually identify mass shooters.

[ossiblue]

Originally Posted by masraum

What do you propose we do?

So, what do you propose we do? What do you think is the problem? Are you saying that ALL Muslim's are bad/dangerous? Are you thinking that we should ban/deport them all? How do we fix a problem when the problem is a group of zealous nutters, that are mostly of a specific religion? In almost every group, you could probably find a small minority who are bad or dangerous. How do you target that minority?

Granted, the Muslim extremists are VERY extreme and dangerous.

The father of the shooter is saying that this isn't religious, but was caused by his family having to see a couple of gay guys kissing in Miami and that angered the shooter. And my guess is he was angry because his religion tells him that being gay is really bad. ISIS deals with gays in a very extreme manor because of religion. This guy had to come up with the reason somewhere, so I do think this act was due to religion.

But back to all of your comments. How do we fix the problem, when we really don't know exactly who the problems are?

You have brought up excellent questions, some of which have simplistic answers that could easily destroy the Constitutional rights and protections of all of us. It is not easy.

There have been lots of comments as to why he was allowed to legally buy weapons while having been on the FBI's watch list--twice. Common sense dictates that he should have been on the "no buy" list and would have been found out during the background checks. The fact is, it is illegal for the FBI to notify anyone that a person had been on the list--it is private information and is protected, much like the HIPPA regulations regarding medical histories. Watch list persons are temporarily restricted from weapon purchases while under FBI investigation, but once removed, their full civil rights are returned. Legislation has been proposed in Congress to change this, but it has failed to get the necessary support.

[fintstone]

Originally Posted by techweenie

Amazing to me when people claim they can visually identify mass shooters.

They intentionally classify them in such a way to make it appear there is no ability to do so. For example, if a group of bank robbers are shot by a policeman or vice versa...or a domestic violence situation murders/suicide is included in tracking data.

[techweenie]

Good to remember the president's words:

"Some of the comments that have been uttered about Islam do not reflect the sentiments of my government or the sentiments of most Americans. Islam, as practiced by the vast majority of people, is a peaceful religion, a religion that respects others. Ours is a country based upon tolerance and we welcome people of all faiths in America."

[onewhippedpuppy]

Hadn't the father also been investigated for posting pro-Taliban comments on social media?

[SIR70T]

Americans should see this John Oliver segment on how Australia dealt with its gun problem - Vox

at least restrict (heavily) the AR stuff , try it it just may work - what do you have to lose ? - wait..... lots really...... . Handguns well thats a whole other issue.

[berettafan]

Originally Posted by techweenie

Good to remember the president's words:

"Some of the comments that have been uttered about Islam do not reflect the sentiments of my government or the sentiments of most Americans. Islam, as practiced by the vast majority of people, is a peaceful religion, a religion that respects others. Ours is a country based upon tolerance and we welcome people of all faiths in America."

He doesn't speak for me. I do not welcome Islam in any form. Ive had enough of this violence.

[Crowbob]

Originally Posted by Noah930

Yes, you're missing the point. Totally. You look at what I wrote and read it like a lawyer or bureaucrat would. Verbatim without any understanding of what life is like in the real world.

Every year, there are a couple nightclub shootings on Hollywood Blvd. Usually gang-related or an issue of some dude who got dissed or in some argument with another equally macho guy, and then someone pulls out a gun or leaves and then comes back with one. Just a mile away, in Boystown (Santa Monica Blvd, west of La Cienega, where By far the partygoers are gay (or gay-sympathetic), crap like that never happens. Somehow the manly straight dudes (who like to carry knives and guns and have low tolerance for using them) seem to be too homophobic to hang out there. Just my opinion, though.

So now it is being reported in the real world, the shooter was sort of a regular at this club, frequented gay dating sites, romantically asked a male coworker out on a date, was escorted out for being drunk and beligerent and pulled a knife on some guy.

[Matt Smith]

He seemed to have some problems with LGBT.
At this stage, and I will stand corrected- better not to jump to conclusions about his 'religious' motives. Just another ABSOLUTE life loser who choses to end unprecedented numbers of Human innocent lives with arrogance and firepower.

[Heel n Toe]

Originally Posted by Crowbob

...the shooter was sort of a regular at this club, frequented gay dating sites, romantically asked a male coworker out on a date...

I wonder if he was gay or if he was scoping that club out, planning his mass murder. I also wonder if he was planning to kill that coworker.

Maybe some guy will come forward who had a sexual liason with him.

[sc_rufctr]

Originally Posted by Crowbob

So now it is being reported in the real world, the shooter was sort of a regular at this club, frequented gay dating sites, romantically asked a male coworker out on a date, was escorted out for being drunk and beligerent and pulled a knife on some guy.

It wouldn't surprise me if he was gay.

[techweenie]

Originally Posted by berettafan

He doesn't speak for me. I do not welcome Islam in any form. Ive had enough of this violence.

The big picture is that "Christians" are responsible for a proportionate share of violence here in the US. Are you sill welcoming them?

Oh, and the statement was from George Bush in 2002...

[techweenie]

Originally Posted by Matt Smith

He seemed to have some problems with LGBT.
At this stage, and I will stand corrected- better not to jump to conclusions about his 'religious' motives. Just another ABSOLUTE life loser who choses to end unprecedented numbers of Human innocent lives with arrogance and firepower.

Bingo. Homophobe father. Self-hating. Angry at the world, sexually confused. Well-armed. With his history, he should have been on a watch list and a no-fly list. And people on the no-fly list should be prohibited from buying guns.