Tulsa shoots unarmed stranded motorist....OOOh boy!

[nota]

990-782 = 208 unarmed dead people

look I have no problem with a cop shooting an armed criminal

but over 200 dead who were unarmed ?
and how many of those cops are in jail or even tried ?

and how many of the ''armed'' were non-criminal
vs how many were armed by police throw downs after the shooting ?

all cops in any use of force
should be tested not only for drugs and alcohol
but also for steroids and steroid like drugs

[intakexhaust]

Originally Posted by nota

990-782 = 208 unarmed dead people

look I have no problem with a cop shooting an armed criminal

but over 200 dead who were unarmed ?
and how many of those cops are in jail or even tried ?

and how many of the ''armed'' were non-criminal
vs how many were armed by police throw downs after the shooting ?

all cops in any use of force
should be tested not only for drugs and alcohol
but also for steroids and steroid like drugs

Add to the list, mentally unstable. Not joking here. Chicago and burbs depts. have had considerable internal issues, obviously not revealed to the public but the real problem is the higher ranking cover-up or protect the cop with issues. There's everything from personal threats to peers to sexual harassment and theft.

Its beyond belief that its gotten to this level. Its a low percentage of the few rogue but have to raise and eyebrow of the larger number of cops doing things wrongly and trigger jumpy. The kicker is their peers letting them do it or stand in the background letting it happen.

And they wonder why the public doesn't trust them. Most are really pretty decent folk who want to come home to their family after a shift. They're stuck with a crappy partner or superior, unable to call them out on issues.

Its a big problem.

[daepp]

Originally Posted by nota

990-782 = 208 unarmed dead people

look I have no problem with a cop shooting an armed criminal

but over 200 dead who were unarmed ?
and how many of those cops are in jail or even tried ?

I know this is a huge part of the current narrative; however, being armed has never been a requirement for being shot.

By virtue of the fact that cops carry guns, they have always had every right to keep unarmed suspects at bay - with deadly force if necessary. It is not the least bit uncommon for a criminal or a mentally ill suspect to try and get the cops gun from him.

Here locally, we just dedicated a park to a fallen officer. The cop was in active pursuit, on foot, of a very large man who had just abandoned a stolen a new, big rig tractor.

The suspect, quite a bit larger than the cop, was running in a dark park carrying a tire iron. The cop tripped, fell, and the mother****er grabbed the gun from the fallen cop and executed him. He was a young dad.

I'm sure many would scream bloody murder if the cop had just killed the perp. They'd also be likely to say he was unarmed. But that cop is very dead, and he left behind a young family of 3.

[flipper35]

That also doesn't include the ones recently shot while trying to run over the officers.

[cairns]

I'm not defending dumb cops but wonder how many of those who criticize ever stop and think what they'd do in the same circumstances....it is far from an easy job and the vast overwhelming majority of police do an outstanding job every day all day.

That needs to be part of the narrative. 200 dead? Out of how many hundreds of thousands, if not millions, of incidents? That figure needs to be put in perspective.

[Bob Kontak]

The police officers have to be schooled to drop the person. Shoot to kill when a threat to their (or others) lives is present/perceived. Makes sense.

Why, when instructed to stop and they do not, even with hands raised, can't the officer hit a knee, shoulder, butt cheek, ankle to get the person's attention? Why wait until there is imminent danger and then demonstrate deadly force?

Downside is the person shot in the knee is deaf or mentally compromised. Embarrassing, maybe, but not even a news story.

The kid in Chicago walking on the road was out of his gourd. Take out a hip before he gets very silly.

I am sure this has been thought through a-plenty.

[stomachmonkey]

Originally Posted by cairns

I'm not defending dumb cops but wonder how many of those who criticize ever stop and think what they'd do in the same circumstances....

Change one thing about this.

The shooter is not a cop but a permitted private citizen.

Will they be going to jail?

[flipper35]

Originally Posted by Bob Kontak

The police officers have to be schooled to drop the person. Shoot to kill when a threat to their (or others) lives is present/perceived. Makes sense.

Why, when instructed to stop and they do not, even with hands raised, can't the officer hit a knee, shoulder, butt cheek, ankle to get the person's attention? Why wait until there is imminent danger and then demonstrate deadly force?

Downside is the person shot in the knee is deaf or mentally compromised. Embarrassing, maybe, but not even a news story.

The kid in Chicago walking on the road was out of his gourd. Take out a hip before he gets very silly.

I am sure this has been thought through a-plenty.

Wounding does not work when there is ill intent. Plus, hitting a small area like a knee is hard for someone that is a good shot. I know an officer in a big town a bit from here and I guarantee my 6 year old is more accurate with a handgun than the officer. Not hyperbole, not a joke. I have shot with them both.

[Racerbvd]

So, how would the police know if someone who refuses to obey an officer's Lawful Orders is actually Armed or not? Sorry, if you are stupid enough to try and reach into your car after the officer has told to to keep your hands were he can see them, and you get your head blown off, tough ****e, you are clearly too stupid to be on the roads. I learned as a teenager, if you get pulled over,
1) Keep your hands where the officer can see them.
2)Do as the officer says.
3)No sudden movements.
4) Be polite and respectful.
All are common sense, and if you don't have that, you don't need to be on the roads.
As a long time Red Porsche owner I have been profiled many times over the years, and have managed to never have been shot or assaulted.

As Speedster said, there is more to the story..

[widebody911]

In the Tulsa incident, he wasn't a "suspect" - just a guy with a broken-down car.

Originally Posted by flipper35

This is why you don't let the suspect back to the car.

[stomachmonkey]

Originally Posted by Racerbvd

So, how would the police know if someone who refuses to obey an officer's Lawful Orders is actually Armed or not? Sorry, if you are stupid enough to try and reach into your car after the officer has told to to keep your hands were he can see them, and you get your head blown off, tough ****e, you are clearly too stupid to be on the roads. I learned as a teenager, if you get pulled over,
1) Keep your hands where the officer can see them.
2)Do as the officer says.
3)No sudden movements.
4) Be polite and respectful.
All are common sense, and if you don't have that, you don't need to be on the roads.
As a long time Red Porsche owner I have been profiled many times over the years, and have managed to never have been shot or assaulted.

As Speedster said, there is more to the story..

It's not all on the citizen.

Many go their entire lives without engaging with an officer while the po-po engage with the public many times a day.

It's unreasonable to assume every single person is going to know how to act / behave.

And when the police don't give clear instruction, you get this,

[Joe Bob]

Dead guy had PCP in car....

PCP allegedly found in Terence Crutcher's car - AOL

[flatbutt]

We'll see after a blood test. PCP "usually" makes people go nuts, not quietly walk away.

[Racerbvd]

Originally Posted by stomachmonkey

It's not all on the citizen.

Many go their entire lives without engaging with an officer while the po-po engage with the public many times a day.

It's unreasonable to assume every single person is going to know how to act / behave.

And when the police don't give clear instruction, you get this,

Yes, it is,there is no way a police officer knows if you are arned or not, so if you act in an agressive manner, move in an aggressive way, reach for something when told to keep your hands still, and you get your head blown off, tough tittie. The guy in the video stopped in the middle of the streeet, only a complete idiot does that, in the cops minds, that is a set up for an ambush, they didn't know if he was reaching for a weapon, we do not know what he was saying to them or if he was obeying the Lawful orders. To say he was just a broke down motorists is misleading, as, people with common sense pull to the SIDE of the road, clearly this guy chose to Block the road.
I am sure the rest of the audio story is released, like most of the other stories that out to make the police look bad, only to have facts clear them, I have a feeling this will fo the same.

Keep your Hands where I can see them, don't move

what can be unclear about that??

[stomachmonkey]

Originally Posted by Racerbvd

Keep your Hands where I can see them, don't move

And if one believes his hands are not where the officer can see them what does he do?

Keep them where the officer can't see them, or move?

Yes, very clear.

[jyl]

The guy was being tased by officer 1. The shooter, officer 2, was 10 or more feet away. They were backed up by other cops on scene. How was he an imminent threat to the cops?

How are Tulsa cops trained?. Are they trained that a Taser is used to immobilize a person, so that your partner can get a clean shot?

Doesn't matter if they thought he was not responding to commands because he was on drugs. Being on drugs - or being thought to be on drugs - isn't a reason to be shot dead. Not responding to commands isn't a reason to be shot dead. If it was, the cops could shoot dozens of people every night in every city in the country. Go to the streets where the clubs empty out at 3 am, or where the homeless and druggies lay around, you'd run out of ammunition before you run out of possibly drugged and non responsive persons.

A person should have to be an imminent threat to a cop's life and limb, to earn a bullet.

I used to be usually defending the police in these threads. Cases of hot pursuit, suspects in a crime brandishing or pointing or pulling out something that looks like a gun, I'm usually willing to give the benefit of the doubt to the officer who has to make a decision in a fraction of a second. This guy wasn't a suspect, wasn't holding anything, wasn't moving fast, he was immobilized by the Taser.

[Bob Kontak]

Originally Posted by Racerbvd

reach for something when told to keep your hands still, and you get your head blown off, tough tittie.

The end.

[Bob Kontak]

Originally Posted by flipper35

Wounding does not work when there is ill intent. Plus, hitting a small area like a knee is hard for someone that is a good shot.

I cannot push back, whatsoever. My argument was full of compassion, just ignunt.

[jyl]

Originally Posted by Bob Kontak

The end.

How about make involuntary movements under the influence of police Taser? Also deserving of killing?

[jyl]

Originally Posted by stomachmonkey

And if one believes his hands are not where the officer can see them what does he do?

Keep them where the officer can't see them, or move?

Yes, very clear.

You are supposed to reach for your license without moving a muscle. Can't everyone do that?