Bike experience

[Jeff Higgins]

Originally Posted by MRM

Jeff, I remember when you posted about your accident and I immediately thought about you when I saw this thread. I was impressed with the safety gear you had on at the time of the accident and how it mitigated certain death down to a mere disaster. Would you mind going over all the safety gear you were wearing that day, and for good measure, anything you use now that you didn't then?

I would be happy to.

My wife and I were both wearing Arai full face helmets, H-D brand "FXRG" armored jackets and pants (both in leather, they make nylon as well), armored gloves with the hard plastic knuckles, and H-D "FXRG" riding boots. Some of it got pretty torn up, and both helmets had significant impact and abrasion damage.

I'm convinced the "CE" certified armor in the jackets and pants saved the day. This stuff is often overlooked - I see way too many riders with good helmets, but tee shirts and jeans otherwise. It's a package deal.

We still wear the same gear, with all of it having been replaced, of course. No matter the weather - it was a very hot day when we got hit, and it would have been tempting to ride with less. I cannot imagine how we would have fared. We are now back to riding, really enjoying it, and thankful every day that we get on a bike that we just won't compromise our safety. It really, really paid off for us. Our lives - assuming we survived - could be so very different now.

[Don Ro]

Thanks for sharing, Jeff.
Back protectors?
I don't wear one...but thinking about buying one.
When I get down with the reality of the sport, I often even think about a neck brace. A CA riding buddy used to wear his when we'd go out and ride the canyons hard.

[atcjorg]

Originally Posted by Jeff Higgins

I have been riding street bikes since 1976. I've averaged somewhere between15,000 and 20,000 miles per year, usually split between at least two bikes. I quit really keeping track of mileage quite a few years and a couple of bikes ago, when I crossed the half million mile threshold. I have been hit by other vehicles twice, and have crashed all on my own twice. Only one collision resulted in a hospital trip, about three and a half years ago when my wife and I were on our Road King and got hit head on by a left turning pickup truck. That's as close as a real disaster as I have ever come.

I kinda take it with a grain of salt when a guy says he's been riding for 30, or 40, or however many years and has never crashed. Maybe they have owned motorcycles that long, but ownership and riding are two different things. Plenty of guys have "ridden" (translate: "owned") bikes for 30 years and have not logged their first ten thousand miles on a motorcycle of any kind. They don't count when we are trying to compile statistics like this.

It is a "dangerous" sport. No getting around that. We can do things to mitigate the danger, to lessen injury when it does happen, but we do kind of have to accept it will happen, if we ride long enough. Dress for the fall, not the ride, stay alert, don't be stupid - and may The Force be with you...

+1 I have over 500,000 mc miles you are spot on

[David]

Probably not a good idea to ride with me:

On the street:
5 car wrecks (4 were totaled) I went 26 years without a wreck until the latest 997 incident
4 motorcycle wrecks (1 was totaled) all were in my first 2 years of riding

On the track:
Too many to count

Most people actually tell me I'm a good driver and very attentive, I just seem to go over the limits of available traction a little too often.

Of course this list doesn't include the many times I was totally out of control and by dumb luck or some skill I managed not to hit anything.

[Fast Freddy 944]

To be old and wise you have to be young and dumb. I didn't become Fast Freddy over night. Motor-cross and off road I have been tossed round' like a rag doll, cracked a few helmets.Note, any photos are for demo only, I have had a few sports car wrecks. Believe it or not 90% of my wrecks were not my fault. Now I take it easy, with minor turbo blasts on unpopulated roads, if I ride my scrambler, its in a safe manor.

[Jeff Higgins]

Originally Posted by Don Ro

Thanks for sharing, Jeff.
Back protectors?
I don't wear one...but thinking about buying one.
When I get down with the reality of the sport, I often even think about a neck brace. A CA riding buddy used to wear his when we'd go out and ride the canyons hard.

Our jackets both had (have) the slip-in style back protectors. I'm sure they helped as we tumbled on down the road.

[varmint]

A far from complete list.

3rd grade, rollover in the school bus. Unhurt.
1986. Am sitting in the back of high school buddies fiat when the guy in front dares him to do a donut. Still have an actual dent in my right leg.
1991 rolled my firebird drunk. street racing. Unharmed.
1999. Idiot ***** turned right in front of me. Went through her windshield. I fully endorse arai helmets. Cuts and bruised ribs.
2000, German tourist in a rental car merges into me. Cracked ribs. Really learned to hate insurance companies after that.
2003 drunk illegal t-bones my step dads pickup while I was in the passenger seat. Bruised, okay.
2004, low sided on the Angeles crest. Broke the L3 and L4. Month in a wheelchair.


The lesson? I am a **** magnet. And safety gear matters.

[Chocaholic]

Originally Posted by NotaBRG

I guess that could be me...

I've never relied on my bike for transportation, the commute to work was only on nice days and was 15 miles and a couple of stop lights. Weekend rides were through the corn fields dodging tractors. And my longest 'road trip' was from SE MN to Aspen CO, or about 1,100 miles each way through rain, sleet, and snow through the pass.

I have no idea how many miles I've logged, but I have been very lucky to have never been down on the street.

Yep...me too. Been riding since I was 18 (57 now) but in varying amounts over the years. Never a scratch, thankfully, but also, never more than probably 15k in any one year. Probably 10k/year average. But one key is not riding for transportation. Purely for enjoyment which means no traffic jams, major intersections, etc. Much prefer country and mountain roads. And most of my riding is solo. I don't care much for riding with a passenger (that's why the RT is for sale) and even less for riding in groups. Would rather rely on my own instincts and ability rather than on those around me.

In the old days I did a couple of rides with a HOG chapter and it scared the bejeebers out of me. Won't go into detail, but suffice it to say, the skill level in groups vary widely and it can significantly affect your safety.

[Don Ro]

Originally Posted by Jeff Higgins

Our jackets both had (have) the slip-in style back protectors. I'm sure they helped as we tumbled on down the road.

My leathers has its own built-in back protector, but I've considered a more stout one.
You are a prudent rider, it's obvious...a good example for all.
I began to ride when I was 10 or 12 yrs. old - can't recall exactly - I would guess that I'm approaching 1/2 mill. miles as well...71 yrs. young last Dec.
.
The older we get, the more we have to lose. "Why chance it?"...has been my personal motto ever since it dawned on me how much I wish to continue to enjoy eating with a fork and pooping in a commode and not into diapers.
.

[Jeff Higgins]

Originally Posted by Chocaholic

Yep...me too. Been riding since I was 18 (57 now) but in varying amounts over the years. Never a scratch, thankfully, but also, never more than probably 15k in any one year. Probably 10k/year average. But one key is not riding for transportation. Purely for enjoyment which means no traffic jams, major intersections, etc. Much prefer country and mountain roads. And most of my riding is solo. I don't care much for riding with a passenger (that's why the RT is for sale) and even less for riding in groups. Would rather rely on my own instincts and ability rather than on those around me.

In the old days I did a couple of rides with a HOG chapter and it scared the bejeebers out of me. Won't go into detail, but suffice it to say, the skill level in groups vary widely and it can significantly affect your safety.

I gave up commuting on a motorcycle probably 30 years ago. Just not worth the risk. All of my riding is purely for pleasure on those country and mountain roads. I think that in itself has significantly lowered my risk.

I won't do group rides anymore either. I think a lot of us tried out the HOG deal when we got memberships with our bikes. I'm sure our experiences were similar, with the broad range of skill and experience seen in the average HOG chapter. I've never been so frightened on a motorcycle than I have been when riding with this crowd. I decided to lessen my risk on this front as well, and only ride with folks I know. Even then I do kind of prefer my own company.

I don't mind having a passenger, so long as I'm on the right bike. Just because it has a pillion and passenger pegs does not mean it's suited to carrying a passenger. My wife dearly loves to ride pillion, but refuses to ride her own bike, so I'm kind of "stuck". In the best possible way, mind you - some of our most cherished memories involve long bike trips. I see these miles as far lower risk than when I ride solo, or with friends - I'm on my best behavior and at my most alert. I am, after all, carrying my most precious cargo...

[MMARSH]

I rode to work, all day during work and home from from work for 12 years up till recently. Also rode on the weekends, either dirt road/canyon or track. Now I no longer rode for work but still ride multiple days out of the week and sometimes most weekends. I've never had a crash on the job, have had several offs on the track and have had a couple of incidents on the street over the last 35 years. Knock wood, I've never gotten a scratch. On my own time, its always ATGATT, ironically, when at work that was not the case, thankfully I never needed it...... I love riding a motorcycle.....

[Jeff Higgins]

Originally Posted by MMARSH

On my own time, its always ATGATT, ironically, when at work that was not the case, thankfully I never needed it...... I love riding a motorcycle.....

I just have to ask, since I see this around here all the time - why don't motor officers wear "ATGATT"? Most around here ride in short sleeved shirts, if the weather is at all conducive to that. I kind of cringe when I see them. I know they know better.

[MMARSH]

Originally Posted by Jeff Higgins

I just have to ask, since I see this around here all the time - why don't motor officers wear "ATGATT"? Most around here ride in short sleeved shirts, if the weather is at all conducive to that. I kind of cringe when I see them. I know they know better.

Ya know, I get that question all the time. Really the answer is it just isn't practical. Here in Socal most agencies have gone to flip up helmets and usually have a jacket with some CE armor in it. In addition to those items, My agency also required that all motors wear a ballistic vest, even though it's optional for everyone else. (added protection when sliding on your chest or back) Several years ago we also started wearing motorcycle specific boots and and pants. We haven't worn the old horse riding gear for quite some time. Although there is talk about bringing it back as formal gear.

That being said, When your on your personal bike are all geared up on a hot day and stop for gas or whatever, even with some sort of mesh gear, it doesn't take very long before you really start to over heat. As a motor, you spend a lot of time parked, then after stopping a violator, stopped while your writing the ticket, then doing the same, over and over. Honestly in the middle of the summer, it is absolutely miserable. We get several days when its over 100.

The other thing is just statistics. In the 12 years i was on the bike, in the hundreds of thousands of miles our 100+ guys have ridden, I honestly don't know of any accidents our guys have had, and there have been very few, that ATGATT would have made a significant difference. Why is that? Well, Honestly we just don't have very many big accidents. I think it is the continuous training we go thru. Just riding a motorcycle everyday, isn't necessarily riding skillfully, and riding skillfully is a perishable skill. We train those perishable skills alot.... after all these years, I still deliberately practice certain skills almost every time i ride. The other thing, just because someone can ride well or fast on the track doesn't mean they know how to ride well or safely on the street. Being Roadsmart is a completely different skill set.

Some are going to say that sounds ridiculous, but thats the truth. Like I said, I feel naked riding my personal bikes without gear. I wouldn't even consider an open face helmet, not a chance, yet the first five or 6 years i was a motor, all we had were open face helmets. a flip wasn't even an option. Both the crashes I've personally had on the street were also circumstances I wouldn't be riding my work bike in... I'll just leave it at that.

FWIW, a buddy of mine is a CHP motor, Their agency has no plans to change from the horse gear because its traditional

Sorry started rambling...

[Arizona_928]

I would say 4. Still have a bike, however, the more and more I see fatal mc accidents...
I think I'll be done with street riding for awhile.

[Jeff Higgins]

Originally Posted by MMARSH

Ya know, I get that question all the time. Really the answer is it just isn't practical. Here in Socal most agencies have gone to flip up helmets and usually have a jacket with some CE armor in it. In addition to those items, My agency also required that all motors wear a ballistic vest, even though it's optional for everyone else. (added protection when sliding on your chest or back) Several years ago we also started wearing motorcycle specific boots and and pants. We haven't worn the old horse riding gear for quite some time. Although there is talk about bringing it back as formal gear.

That being said, When your on your personal bike are all geared up on a hot day and stop for gas or whatever, even with some sort of mesh gear, it doesn't take very long before you really start to over heat. As a motor, you spend a lot of time parked, then after stopping a violator, stopped while your writing the ticket, then doing the same, over and over. Honestly in the middle of the summer, it is absolutely miserable. We get several days when its over 100.

The other thing is just statistics. In the 12 years i was on the bike, in the hundreds of thousands of miles our 100+ guys have ridden, I honestly don't know of any accidents our guys have had, and there have been very few, that ATGATT would have made a significant difference. Why is that? Well, Honestly we just don't have very many big accidents. I think it is the continuous training we go thru. Just riding a motorcycle everyday, isn't necessarily riding skillfully, and riding skillfully is a perishable skill. We train those perishable skills alot.... after all these years, I still deliberately practice certain skills almost every time i ride. The other thing, just because someone can ride well or fast on the track doesn't mean they know how to ride well or safely on the street. Being Roadsmart is a completely different skill set.

Some are going to say that sounds ridiculous, but thats the truth. Like I said, I feel naked riding my personal bikes without gear. I wouldn't even consider an open face helmet, not a chance, yet the first five or 6 years i was a motor, all we had were open face helmets. a flip wasn't even an option. Both the crashes I've personally had on the street were also circumstances I wouldn't be riding my work bike in... I'll just leave it at that.

FWIW, a buddy of mine is a CHP motor, Their agency has no plans to change from the horse gear because its traditional

Sorry started rambling...

Thanks Michael. Makes absolute sense to me. Long term results usually don't lie, so if you are "protecting" yourselves from things that simply do not happen, it begs the question as to why you would do that. It's nice that it sounds like you guys are given some discretion in that, based upon your experiences. Many of us are not allowed that in our professions. The "safety Dans", who have no actual in the field experience, have taken over for many of us.

[Don Ro]

Some opinions on the ATGATT subject:
.
ATGATT is worthless

[Chocaholic]

Bottom line... personal preference, risk aversion and common sense are each rider's prerogative. Everyone's barometer is different and they tend to become more conservative with age and experience...like many things, I suppose.

The article linked above says ATTGAT is worthless when accompanied by blatant stupidity. Anyone here would most certainly agree. Just saving y'all a bit of bandwidth. Having gear on your back isn't a license to ride beyond your ability. Unless you have a death-wish.

[Don Ro]

I'll say this - when I wear full leathers I can sense more security, an almost 'bravado' sense.
Probably from track time where I felt that I'd not incur as much physical damage fully dressed.

[MMARSH]

Originally Posted by Don Ro

I'll say this - when I wear full leathers I can sense more security, an almost 'bravado' sense.
Probably from track time where I felt that I'd not incur as much physical damage fully dressed.

I understand that. I feel the same way. If I wear something other then leather on my sportbikes while riding on the street, I mentally just don't feel comfortable and ride much more conservative.

[Chocaholic]

Ride naked!