Question about joining the Navy

[A930Rocket]

I know we have some ex-military here. Thanks for your service!

Our son has one more year left at Yale graduating with a degree in computer science. He wants to enlist in the Navy when he graduates and become a Navy SEAL. He's been planning this for three years. His reasoning for enlisting is that more enlisted get selected than do than officers. While I'm thrilled he wants to serve (I didn't but wish I did) Ms Rocket is a little nervous.

What are the differences/procedures for enlisting vs trying to go in as an officer (if he can)? What are his chances of being selected to try out for BUDS? What would he do while he applies and waits to get selected? What if he washes out? What would he do? I don't want him to have gone to university only to end up swabbing the deck.

He's thinking about talking to the Navy recruiter tomorrow. Should he talk to them now? Should he wait? When is the best time? What should he ask?

Lots of questions!

[rattlsnak]

Don't have those answers but my nephew is a Navy Recruiter on his second stint and I'm sure he will be glad to talk to him about this. I'll be glad to pass his info on if you're interested. He will give you the straight answers if he knows I sent him someone

[pavulon]

A Yale graduate with a brainiac major and commendable desire to serve needs to look at ALL the options before enlisting. I understand the SEAL angle, but what happens if he comes up short? At least he still has good options as an officer and someday he'll likely leave the armed services and be looking for employment.

[HHI944]

I wasn't Navy, but I know a few squids and a few guys with their Trident.
You can get a an enlistment contract guaranteeing the opportunity to go to BUD/S (assuming he passes all the physical requirements).
I don't think that's an option for an OCS candidate.
While I wouldn't be surprised to find out that the selection rate for officers is lower, remember that fewer officers attend BUD/S.

SEALs are an interesting breed. What makes him want to be a SEAL?

[speeder]

There are some retired Navy officers here who know a lot more but I've seen a documentary about SEALs plus know a couple. Their training is so tough that there is absolutely no way on earth to know whether any individual will complete it without actually trying. The washout rate is huge and almost everyone who tries is a super athlete/swimmer, tough as nails, never quit type, etc., etc...

A neighbor I grew up with was a SEAL team dive instructor, (talk about badass), he spent a lot of time training members of the other services in diving, stuff like that. You would never guess if you met him that he has that background, he's a fit middle aged guy but that's about it from appearances. Very soft spoken. Great guy.

Best of luck to him but that sounds like a risky gambit that might not pay off.

[Evans, Marv]

What a shame he goes to a prestigious school, majoring in a technical field that's in high demand and doesn't want to use it. Does he dislike the field he studied? Sounds like it may be a good candidate for a passing fancy. I would think his possibly best choice would to be to see about joining the Navy as an officer. He'll no doubt be in demand with his technical education & background. There will be plenty of time after that to look around and inquire about the possibilities of becoming a SEAL if he decides that's the avenue he wants to explore after talking to people in the Navy and learning more about it to make a more informed decision. At least that way he'd have the option to try for it and have something to return to if he didn't make it, plus he might discover other avenues he would prefer later on.

[FastFrog]

So, going enlisted is the easiest way to get to BUD/S. Tell the Navy Recruiter that you only want that program and you will guaranteed to go (if you pass the screen test at RTC "boot camp"). He could be in training shortly after Great Lakes.

Go into the program to succeed, not "well if this doesn't work out....”

He can always apply for a commission after a few years in the Teams.

If you go the O route, you have to compete for a spot; not very easy. I have seen top notch dudes not get a slot due to others in the selection were faster, stronger, more mature etc. It comes down to a competition for a few slots that year.

BL: If he knows how to work hard, succeed, and can handle stress when others don't, he will be fine.
Get on this site and start training. The physical screen test should be a joke for him.
I have seen guys that were "in good shape" get destroyed because they were severely unprepared regardless what route they took

NAVY SEAL + SWCC - SEALSWCC.COM | Official Website U.S. Navy SEALs and SWCC

[SamC.]

Rocket, PM sent.

[A930Rocket]

He has researched and been planning this for three years. He wants to serve and is very motivated and determined to do this and only this. There is no fall back plan.

He's an athlete that swims at Yale and crushes the PST tests for an officer, so enlisted quals would be easy for him.

Thanks for the answers and PM's.

Keep them coming.

[matthewb0051]

Originally Posted by FastFrog

So, going enlisted is the easiest way to get to BUD/S. Tell the Navy Recruiter that you only want that program and you will guaranteed to go (if you pass the screen test at RTC "boot camp"). He could be in training shortly after Great Lakes.

Go into the program to succeed, not "well if this doesn't work out....”

He can always apply for a commission after a few years in the Teams.

If you go the O route, you have to compete for a spot; not very easy. I have seen top notch dudes not get a slot due to others in the selection were faster, stronger, more mature etc. It comes down to a competition for a few slots that year.

BL: If he knows how to work hard, succeed, and can handle stress when others don't, he will be fine.
Get on this site and start training. The physical screen test should be a joke for him.
I have seen guys that were "in good shape" get destroyed because they were severely unprepared regardless what route they took

NAVY SEAL + SWCC - SEALSWCC.COM | Official Website U.S. Navy SEALs and SWCC

This sounds like sage advice regarding BUD/S. If the goal is to be a SEAL then listen to this. But there is more to consider:

I have no experience in the SEAL arena, however, I have been both enlisted and commissioned officer.

It is a real kick in the jimmy (or at least it was to me) to have education and be enlisted. He should give some real consideration to that factor. Peers will be uneducated, which isn't a bad thing but when he realizes that his superiors have the same education or in his case less, it can be a real downer to know that you could be the boss but that you chose a different path. This becomes worse when the boss / officer is not the brightest bulb...

[Mad Max]

Originally Posted by matthewb0051

This sounds like sage advice regarding BUD/S. If the goal is to be a SEAL then listen to this. But there is more to consider:

I have no experience in the SEAL arena, however, I have been both enlisted and commissioned officer.

It is a real kick in the jimmy (or at least it was to me) to have education and be enlisted. He should give some real consideration to that factor. Peers will be uneducated, which isn't a bad thing but when he realizes that his superiors have the same education or in his case less, it can be a real downer to know that you could be the boss but that you chose a different path. This becomes worse when the boss / officer is not the brightest bulb...

I have no experience with Seals but the easiest route should be enlisted but Murphy's Law says an injury or unforeseen consequence can result in being enlisted for x amount of years waiting for a O slot. There is no guarantee of a successful BUD/S slot. The money is much better as an O especially in this economy. I am retired E7, Air Force Reserve with 30+ years.

[Groesbeck Hurricane]

He should also look into the US Air Force Combat Controllers, they specialize in all aspects of air-ground communication, including air traffic control, fire support (including fixed and rotary wing close air support), and command, control, and communications in covert, forward, or austere environments. This is a SOCOM group as well but much lesser known.

The schools are very tough, there are Officer positions. The field is dangerous, grueling, challenging, and fulfilling.

I washed out just before jump school when my knee gave way.

Do some reading up on it. We had FROG training as well as other methods of insertion. Might be a nicer route as the Air Force has better digs but slower promotions.


I can also put him in contact with some Rangers. They LOVE IT!

[MRM]

He won't be happy as an enlisted man in the Navy. He will be much older than the others in his training classes and his peers will not be the ambitious well educated young people with bright futures he is used to being part of. He will be more well educated than his commanding officers and will be stuck in a regimented life where his promotional opportunities are limited by time in service, no matter how well he excels, and then only if he excels with the required time in service. And once he's in, he's in until his enlistment is up whether he likes it or not. With no guarantees from the Navy about anything other than they keep him until his enlistment is up.

Instead, I strongly suggest he join the reserves now and do his basic next summer between his junior and senior year. He could join ROTC and do the officer equivalent as well, and I don't think he would have a commitment at that point unless he has a scholarship. Either way, he can decide then whether he still thinks he would be happy in active duty and in what capacity withut placing himself in a position he can't get out of.

[Seahawk]

Originally Posted by MRM

He won't be happy as an enlisted man in the Navy. He will be much older than the others in his training classes and his peers will not be the ambitious well educated young people with bright futures he is used to being part of. He will be more well educated than his commanding officers...

Put the broad brush down, MRM, unless you have insight I don't have.

BTW, if he was in my command(s) he would not have been in the top 10. Yale doesn't mean schit in the military either. It is about the mission and a persons ability to perform it. I have found little correlation between formal education and ability to successfully carry out the mission.

My advice is to put him in touch with former SEALS and have them talk to him. I know about 50, both enlisted and zeros.

I can facilitate. Well, I'll try, not being bright and all.

[A930Rocket]

Paul, we are all ears as to who we can talk to. I've got a few guys here I need to call that contacted me.

Can you expand upon not being in the top ten?

[Seahawk]

Originally Posted by A930Rocket

Can you expand upon not being in the top ten?

I was being a dick. My comment was not aimed at your son.

PM your email and I'll set it up. I have two really good friends, one a former enlisted SEAL I went through AOCS with and a SEAL Officer I flew around in a former life.

Here is what I know: Special Ops guys have their own ethos and drumbeat. They are, in the mean, highly intelligent and blessed with mental and physical endurance most of us are not familiar with. I am certainly not.

Your son needs to speak with them.

[jyl]

What will his opportunities and experience be if he serves as an enlisted man NOT in the SEAL team. Seems like the most probable outcome?

[John Rogers]

If it were me and my son, I would talk him into finishing with his degree and then look at the possibilities. In a year if he gets a $100K + job offer he might well change his mind. If he decides to look into it now I would suggest he go to a recruiting office that has recruiters from all the services and let them bid on getting him signed up. That is what I did way back in 1965 when the draft board was coming very close and I did not want to get shot at. The Army, Marines and Air Force all wanted me to fly helicopters and that was not a great idea. The Navy man said he had this nuclear power program with lots of schooling, lots of money and very clean ships. I decided on the nuclear program and retired in 1985 with a bit over 20 years.

I did work with the Navy SEALS back in 1995 or so when I wrote a database program that allowed them to track the trainees going through BUD/S as I was working at NCTS San Diego and got a lot of info from the LT. I shared an office with. He said it is a very good idea to either get a commission or rate you would be happy with just in case you get injured or drop out. He said that they like trainees with high IQ's and good physical abilities rather than just football jock types. He worked for the CIA now and then and he said they kept trying to get him to resign his commission and come to work as a spook full time.......but he was happy.

[Danimal16]

Get a Mentor not a Recruiter. Paul is right about this. When I joined the Navy (not spec ops or anything close) I wanted to fly or Civil Engineer Corps (it was different back then) and go Seabees. I was older (29) and a structural engineer with Bechtel. I was bored with the office gig.

My Father was a Marine Sergeant Major. He gave me the same advice that Paul is giving. (THANKS DAD!)

After completing the Navy's series of tests, the recruiter wanted me to go Nuke. I explained to him that was not what was in the cards (I was a bit versed in the tedium of Nukes). My Mentor, a friend of my father was spot on with his advice. (31 years of service, active and reserve).

Contact those that are in the community and if possible have one be your mentor. Their advice is priceless. Oh, and my neighbor Bob's SIL, is a Ranger and he loves it. Neat stuff, don't limit it to one branch.

AND Best of Luck and Good Fortune.

[A930Rocket]

Thanks Paul. PM sent shortly.

He's definitely finishing his degree at school. We take him back in August for his senior year. He likes his major but has a different plan.

He's a low maintenance guy. Very humble and gets along with everyone.

He's not in it for the money or rank. He just wants to be a SEAL and has planned and trained for this for the past three years. One more year to go.