cali folks? registration? vin check? from another forum

[id10t]

From another forum I'm on.

I'm hoping someone here can give some advice so I can pass it on. Here's the original post/problem -

Cousin who lives in South Cali, can't believe they can tolerate the place, while back home visiting found a nice vintage collector car that I know is totally clear and right and seller a relative, is highly reputable as in a regular at all Barrett-Jackson events and sells cars to people that fly in experts on private jets to assess. He is a top name in restoration business now. Sent car to Cali on a truck with Georgia title, tag receipt and bill of sale and GM Protectaplate plus build sheet and Georgia Law Enforcement Vin Number inspection. Took car to get it tagged in Cali and had to have a Vin Number inspection. Inspector said he is unsure if vin plate and fender tag have proper factory fasteners so they confiscated the car and until can verify the tags are factory installed they will not even release to seller and bring it back to Georgia. Cruised a few Cali collector car forums and have discovered this has become a common practice in Cali to "question" vin plates of antique cars and hold till owner can prove they are correct. Understand have to pay out of pocket and prove without doubt car is right. Apparently quite a few right cars are now property of the state and will never be given back. Right now I have seven basket case Harley-Davidson's planned on restoring and like my regular rider built myself have local law enforcement come inspect all vin's and serial numbers, do visual inspection and run through system to make sure not stolen before build then loose after investing ton of time and money. Anyone on left coast heard of such?

[matthewb0051]

I had a similar situation living in Hawaii. They gave me considerable grief over my 1969 911E. Since the VIN is fairly short, they wanted me to have an inspection in Honolulu. I asked why and was informed that they needed to look for the 'hidden VIN'. I asked what that is and was told it was something that was started in the 80's. Then we had a conversation about my car being a 1969 and it wouldn't have the hidden vin, now would it?. ( I used to cross examine the dodo out of witnesses in court so this was fun)

The lady finally relented went outside and looked at the VIN, which magically matched the Title that was in my grubby hands. Problem solved, registration issued.

Back to your issue. I posted in a thread about the show Speed is the new Black where they took in a customer truck, bought a new cab, frame, bed, engine, suspension and so on. My question is when does it become a different vehicle than what they started with? Could that be what CA is doing here, saying that if you change the parts so that you are just slapping a vin plate on parts that never belonged to the vehicle then its not the actual VIN of that vehicle?

No idea how to fix it though. One recommendation is to look at this article about seized Land Rover Defenders. An attorney got involved (whom I recall is a Defender owner) and ultimately got the vehicles released. The government's position was that the vehicles were not over 25 years and therefore not import(able) without conversion/EPA. The counter was that the government had no proof of their assertion.

https://jalopnik.com/all-the-seized-land-rover-defenders-will-be-returned-to-1708474732

This will likely require legal action, which brings me back to my sum of the parts issue above. BUT FFS don't give in. If the inspector is 'unsure' then I'm curious how that can be a basis for seizure. Seems that he should have more than a suspicion in order for the seizure to prevail. You need to find out which party bears the burden of proof on the VIN plate issue. If it falls on the state then I seriously doubt that the 'unsure' nature of the inspector's determination will carry the day, he could have just had gas. IF the burden falls on the party attempting registration then cousin needs to get his ducks in a row and figure out where to go to get an ultimate determination and what sort of proof is necessary.

I also remember this being an issue on Chasing Classic Cars when there were old Jeeps involved with some Olympic skier. Wayne Corini was very concerned over the vin tag and rivets, which were new.

These are just my thoughts and not intended as legal advice. I am not licensed in CA.

[Steve Carlton]

That's a new one to me. Were the VIN tag fasteners not original? Sounds like an attorney is needed.

[Tobra]

It does not matter if they are original, or even if they look original. California is pretty strapped for cash. Guilty until proven innocent on a a subjective call, priceless.

[vash]

when i brought my 1975 911 in..i had a great experience. the DMV was super helpful. it was painless.

[Yorkie]

Not heard of this before. I've brought in out of state cares and motorcycles before and simply took them down to AAA and had their people verify the VINs. Titles were issued within a couple of weeks. When it has not been convenient to take the vehicle to AAA I have used a private verifier who comes to your house and conducts and inspection. They give you a form and you take it to the DMV and they issue you a title. Now if the vehicles truly have suspect VINs (I've seen early 912s turned into 911S models by welding in the VIN panel) then they are going to confiscate. Not sure its a conspiracy to get more tax revenue. They already have enough methods to take our money as it is.

[pwd72s]

Once in a while I do read of a long ago stolen car returned to it's rightful owner because of checks like these, so I suppose there is a good side to this story.

As the price of Collector cars escalates, more and more shady characters enter the game.

[SoCal911T]

I have a gray market '80s BMW with a VIN tag that looks like it was made by junior car thieves at Tijuana High School's metal shop and the DMV inspector did not like it one bit. Once I showed her that the car had previously been registered in California, it was all pandas and unicorns.

[aigel]

I would like to see a picture of said VIN from the person without a "Enter" key. I have done this several times in CA and never had an issue. Maybe they did buy a butchered car.

While they don't run efficient like most government agencies, I don't think we can claim that a DMV employee has any skin in the game or instructions to making it harder to register a car or frivolously seizing it because the state is strapped for cash. That's just total BS. Something is up here, and i very much doubt it is on the DMV side ...

G

[speeder]

Originally Posted by vash

when i brought my 1975 911 in..i had a great experience. the DMV was super helpful. it was painless.

Originally Posted by Yorkie

Not heard of this before. I've brought in out of state cares and motorcycles before and simply took them down to AAA and had their people verify the VINs. Titles were issued within a couple of weeks. When it has not been convenient to take the vehicle to AAA I have used a private verifier who comes to your house and conducts and inspection. They give you a form and you take it to the DMV and they issue you a title. Now if the vehicles truly have suspect VINs (I've seen early 912s turned into 911S models by welding in the VIN panel) then they are going to confiscate. Not sure its a conspiracy to get more tax revenue. They already have enough methods to take our money as it is.

Originally Posted by pwd72s

Once in a while I do read of a long ago stolen car returned to it's rightful owner because of checks like these, so I suppose there is a good side to this story.

As the price of Collector cars escalates, more and more shady characters enter the game.

I've transferred and registered countless out of state vehicles in CA. and have never had an issue like this. They do walk outside and verify VIN. Just had to do this last week on my 1984 BMW motorcycle bought in GA. and shipped here, the DMV lady had accurate info on her iPad as to how many places the VIN# should be on the bike, etc. I had a minor issue when the engine# was not where I expected it to be but a quick google search on my phone cleared it up and she was very patient and easy to deal with.

In Minnesota, they do not even walk outside and look at your out of state vehicle you are transferring and registering. You could steal a car, go down to the DMV w the title from some other car and get new plates for the stolen car. That's a little retarded. CA. is at least nominally on top of that situation.

The world is full of scammers and thieves, I'm all for any reasonable efforts to flush them out. The story in the OP doesn't add up as written, big surprise. But it feeds perfectly into the dipschit "kalifornia" narrative that makes people in god awful places feel a little better about themselves.

[John Rogers]

When I bought my 2007 Chevy HHR 4.5 years ago it had Arkansas plates on it since I bought it from a US Marine Staff Sargent who was retiring and going back home. He had a pickup and his wife had just bought a Honda sedan. So I went to a company in Chula Vista that does the license/registration/title stuff and they charge $20 to do it for me. I had the car smog checked by him first and proved it was a 50 state car and I wanted my F350's handicap plates used. Here comes the silly part, the whole office was staffed by women that looked like super models (as my neighbor told me) and the one who helped me was something......she said she always went to the same man at our DMV and he helped her immediately! She didn't even get one of those stupid alpha-numeric tags you get. I think it was the very low cut blouse she wore that helped?!

Enough of the silly stuff: I checked the information on both of these CA DMV websites before I even went to the office to get the registration taken care of and made sure all applicable info was there and had the needed signatures:
CA Info
https://www.dmv.ca.gov/portal/dmv/detail/pubs/brochures/fast_facts/ffvr29

CA How To
https://www.dmv.ca.gov/portal/dmv/detail/pubs/brochures/howto/htvr9

Note on the second website it mentions the vin can be checked at a DMV, but not all of them.