The opiod epidemic....

[targa911S]

Originally Posted by ckelly78z

No, luckily I don't know anyone who has this problem....enlighten me about what you know !

Ok. I have been addicted. Booze, not drugs. But as they say in recovery, a drug is a drug is a drug. Addiction is not a weakness of character as you say. It's a very real disease that involves excessive compulsive behavior. I could be addicted to anything I like, anything. Cars, booze, drugs, sex, shopping you get it yet? I have said in my leads at AA meetings that if driving nails into my head gave me a thrill I would do that all the time. Addiction is not something you get cured of. It is something you live with all your life and that you have to control every day or it will control you. You may recover, but you are never cured.

[Tobra]

Tadd, I have read that and other studies and am not impressed by the supposed causal link. When they say "might be" or "might be expected," it indicates to me the authors are not that impressed either. When the initial testing was done on the COX 2 drugs, they saw increased cardiac events that were attributed to holding aspirin, which is commonly given for its anti-platelet effects.

That said, the COX 2 NSAIDs never did dazzle me much, aside from how expensive they are.

Heroin is a great drug, too bad we can't use it for our hospice patients like they do in Europe. Alcohol is a far, far bigger substance abuse problem than opiates will ever be, both from overall numbers adversely effected and mortality. I understand that in Texas, they have cut WAY down, to the point of almost eliminating, prescriptions of Norco/hydrocodone and gone back to writing for codeine again, due to the diversion of Norco being so prevalent.

[Seahawk]

Originally Posted by targa911S

Ok. I have been addicted. Booze, not drugs. But as they say in recovery, a drug is a drug is a drug. Addiction is not a weakness of character as you say. It's a very real disease that involves excessive compulsive behavior. I could be addicted to anything I like, anything. Cars, booze, drugs, sex, shopping you get it yet? I have said in my leads at AA meetings that if driving nails into my head gave me a thrill I would do that all the time. Addiction is not something you get cured of. It is something you live with all your life and that you have to control every day or it will control you. You may recover, but you are never cured.

My man.

[KFC911]

The band Tragically Hip, lost their front man recently....the line from their first album still rings true.....

Over Opiated

That describes the crisis we face perfectly imo

RIP Gordy ....

[tevake]

There is responsibility at all levels of the problem, from the addicted user, to the distributor ( whether illegal or pharmacies ).
But the big Pharma producer that knows that they are selling huge quantities of these known highly addictive drugs into areas of small populations or even larger quantities into cities where the amount sold is enough for proper dosing to most of the population there.

And promoting excessive prescribing from the Drs where they start the distribution of their product.

Then using their excessive influence with their hoards of lobbyists in Washington to avoid prosecution. This all in the persuit of ever larger profits.
Is this business as usual now?

If these things were done by an individual or some underground network and there would be no question about the consequences, but done by a large profitable industry and somehow it's seen differently.
I don't get it.

Cheers Richard

[cairns]

"I really don’t understand how it is so much a pharma issue as a criminal one. When one can sell a bottle of medicine that cost them a dollar or two (after insurance) for a thousand...it is little wonder they do so. Especially since the nation seems to have a large segment that self medicate with drugs from alcohol to marijuana and the marketing is massive that it is not only ok....but anyone who points out the dangers is simply an uncaring ass. The same for opioids. They are an effective pain killer...and doctors must prescribe it for patients who claim severe pain to meet required standards of care. Time to crack down on all illegal drug sales and throw the book at those who sell illegal drugs. It is also time to ask Hollywood to stop glorifying drug use."

You obviously don't understand and have an incredibly narrow opinion. Look up Arthur Sackler and learn how pharma sells to physicians. It started with Terramycin, then Valium moved to Oxycontin et. al.

The get back to us before going off on another anti marijuana diatribe.

[pavulon]

Dodging accountability for problems has reached epidemic proportions in the US. Nobody is responsible for anything and nobody wants to admit they have done something wrong. IMO, that is the root of a LOT of problems people are trying to parse out today...including this one.

[KFC911]

I have a brilliant, drop dead gorgeous, 2nd cousin with a Phd in pharmacy....in her late 20s. A couple of decades ago, she could have easily made millions pushing big pharma drugs to the docs. At least that's no longer business as usual....

[greglepore]

Originally Posted by Bob Kontak

For my son it does. He is incarcerated. I have the benefit of knowing he probably won't die tonight.

A simple path was laid out for him for all to be expunged. Could not do it.

Info technology four year degree. Smart as a whip.

Several felonies that will now stick.

Opana. Severe pain opiate.

Peace, Bob. I too have an addict son. Started with Perc's prescribed for a broken arm, classic progression from there. Something about the adolescent brain and these drugs. Thank goodness he's clean for now, still has judgement issues...but going to a trade school and working.
I totally understand the concept of "at least he's safe". I spent many a night unable to sleep, afraid I would get "the call", and secretly hoping that he'd get busted or something.
I also understand the need for pain management, have serious chronic neuropathic pain myself that for the most part is mediated with Lyrica for the moment-not that it doesn't have its own set of nasty side effects. No easy answers unfortunately.

[Bob Kontak]

Originally Posted by greglepore

Peace, Bob. I too have an addict son. Started with Perc's prescribed for a broken arm, classic progression from there.

Thanks, Greg.

My son did not start with a script. However, the contact he had was clearly oversubscribed (edit: oops over prescribed) the Opana drug.

[reachme]

I was prescribed Oxycodone after a bad kidney stone when I was 19. At followup the doc told me that since I was so young probability was excellent I would have many more, and that when it hit I could immediately be in excruciating pain. I travel internationally so he prescribed more and instructions on bottle (take x every y hours as needed for pain).

I keep renewing that prescription every 6 years or so and have it in my travel bag at all times but have never taken one (I recognize early signs now)

I don't consider the doctor irresponsible and if I started taking it on weekends I would not blame pharma no more than I blame hostess for my twinkie problems. On the contrary I am very lucky to be able to handle this should I ever need to.

Drugs can be BAD and they scare me. They should scare everyone -just like they teach everyone in school and on TV. I am sorry to hear some of the very sad stories but I have yet to hear one that rules out personal choice.
--I also did not mean for this to be a response to any one post in this thread or to come off as callous. Maybe it is because I have addiction in many areas of my family that keeps me from abusing. I really do wish successful treatment to anyone suffering---

[Tobra]

Originally Posted by pavulon

Dodging accountability for problems has reached epidemic proportions in the US. Nobody is responsible for anything and nobody wants to admit they have done something wrong. IMO, that is the root of a LOT of problems people are trying to parse out today...including this one.

es Verdat

[mattdavis11]

My SO takes hydrocodone 3-4 times a day for pain. No sure what mg, but I think it's low. She had a car accident in 2013, and has been on them since.

What I do know is that she is addicted. She goes to the pain center when ever they require, whether she is out or not, to have prescriptions renewed. They monitor her use from a far, has to pee in a cup, etc..., but don't know if she has an excess amount for future use. She worries when the count is low, and schedules another appointment. Addict.

On another note, the necessity for pain medication can be psychological. Placebo effect. My grand mother ate advil like mad for pain, but when we swapped the advil for purple M&M's, they had the same effect.

I would like to have pills made that resemble my SO's pills to prove to my point. We have had the discussion. In her mind, she's not an addict.

[ckelly78z]

Originally Posted by mattdavis11

My SO takes hydrocodone 3-4 times a day for pain. No sure what mg, but I think it's low. She had a car accident in 2013, and has been on them since.

What I do know is that she is addicted. She goes to the pain center when ever they require, whether she is out or not, to have prescriptions renewed. They monitor her use from a far, has to pee in a cup, etc..., but don't know if she has an excess amount for future use. She worries when the count is low, and schedules another appointment. Addict.

So sorry for you, and your SO, this is a real struggle to admit (for you, and her), that someone has a problem. I too, had a really bad car accident in 2013, and took only 2 pills for 17 broken bones with nothing since (6 months off work leaning to walk again). I do believe it IS a psycological condition where the drugs create the need, and further the implied pain beyond the real pain.

[pavulon]

Tom Petty's death has now been ruled an accidental overdose caused by several medications including fentanyl and oxycodone.

https://www.yahoo.com/entertainment/tom-pettys-autopsy-singer-died-massive-accidental-drug-overdose-001310152.html

[notmytarga]

I have read the book Dreamland and heard the author speak. Impressive coverage of a complicated tale. Pharmaceutical marketing of OxyContin as not addicting was bolstered by a letter to the editor which reviewed hopital data and said addiction to opioids is uncommon. This reference was bandied about like it was a multicenter research paper.

OxyContin (long acting oxycodone) was prescribed in greater and greater numbers. Unscrupulous and/or stupid doctors started writing prescriptions for cash and had patients waiting in line. These were/are the Pill Mills that are being rooted out even today. Hotel rooms and Pill Trucks are used these days. Medical Boards are yanking lisences but it takes 2-3 years for this to happen. Opana has been taken off the market because it was the preferred medication to alter and inject in one community where HIV infections spiked. Drug companies are on a race to create pills that are difficult to alter and snort or inject or simply don't have a "liking" effect. These mediations are actually tested in federal lockups on addicts to assess these features.

Heroin enters the picture - brought in from a small enclave in Mexico instead of the Far East as before. Dealers are driving around in cars, using coded cellphone from an organizer for meetups. Black tar heroin is put in balloons so it can be swallowed if law enforcement gets involved. Violence is discouraged, these are not gangs. This system spread from city to city. The book covers all this from interviews and investigation.

The current overdose epidemic, as previously mentioned, is largely from fentanyl made in China and shipped via normal carriers to the US. It is so cheap, potent and concentrated that it is mixed with heroin for more effect and made into counterfeit pills of all sorts. There is not a pharmaceutical purity practice as this happens and dosing has tremendous variability. Consider the user that gets a low dose - unhappy. High dose - happier. Too high - dead. What does the crank supplier shoot for? -
the highest dose that doesn't kill all his customers. Fentanyl can be purchased cheaply and cut to the point where it is 1000 times profitable. The USPS has failed to comply with requirements to track package sources to allow the source of fentanyl shipments to be dealt with.

That being said there are scores of people who appropriately use these medication prescribed by their doctor. Some prescribers do it poorly and give the patient more than is needed - perhaps this feeds the opioid diversion or just reassures the patient that they won't run out. Many family practice doctors are sending their long term opioid patients to pain management practices to avoid the hassles and oversight that threatened their livelihood and freedom.

Being an addict means going through rediculous or dangerous or illegal hoops to get a substance with significant deleterious effects on relationships with crime, unemployment and/or health problems occuring. "Opioid Use Disorder" is a term that describes some of these 'preaddicted' patients.

Many changes have occured of late. Prior to prescribing, state databases are checked to confirm dates, amounts and other prescribers. Urine or saliva tests are done to look for other substances and to see if the patient is taking the prescribed medication. Pill counts are randomly done to confirm appropriate daily use and detect diversion. This is the type of medical practice I am in. We monitor medications if they are appropriate and evaluate patients for painful locations that can be treated with anesthetics, steroids and heat probes in order to improve function and reduce reliance on medications. An majority of these patients have spine pain. We essentially never increase opioid prescribing and see some referrals with ridiculous high dosing occasionally.

If the pill mill, heroin story interests you:Dreamland by Sam Quinones - no affiliation.

[Crowbob]

My cousin chopped off part of his finger and was prescribed oxy for a week. After the pills ran out he went to the doctor because he was feeling really crappy not because of his finger.

Doc told him he was in withdrawal. He now keeps his hands as far away from moving industrial fans as possible. And stays even further away from opioids.

His attitude about addicts/opioids completely changed. Bad, bad, dangerous stuff says he.

[daepp]

Originally Posted by KC911

When Oxy was developed, big pharma had an intense marketing campaign towards doctors, and hid the darker side...it's dangerously addictive...we all know that now....they knew it then, but convinced the docs otherwise imo

I'm sorry - who doesn't know opioids are addictive - then, or now?

My parents were born in the 20's. They were just average people, but when I got my wisdom teeth pulled in the early 70's they knew to warn me about the Tylenol with codeine.

[daepp]

The addiction levels in this country are getting out of hand, but it stems from a sickness between the ears of the user, not pharmaceutical companies.

No one asks the real and tough question - namely, what is it about our culture that sees so many more people per capita abusing alcohol and drugs (of any kind - including food, sex, gaming) to find artificial comfort and to hide from their realities?

[wdfifteen]

Originally Posted by targa911S

Ok. I have been addicted. Booze, not drugs. But as they say in recovery, a drug is a drug is a drug. Addiction is not a weakness of character as you say. It's a very real disease that involves excessive compulsive behavior. I could be addicted to anything I like, anything. Cars, booze, drugs, sex, shopping you get it yet? I have said in my leads at AA meetings that if driving nails into my head gave me a thrill I would do that all the time. Addiction is not something you get cured of. It is something you live with all your life and that you have to control every day or it will control you. You may recover, but you are never cured.

Based on my experience with my mother and my ex-wife, I believe this is true. Good on you for managing your addiction. I don’t believe addiction is something you get cured of, like a dose of the clap. It is something the strong and motivated manage, like diabetes. After what I have seen, you have my utmost respect for your decision and your strength to follow through. God bless you.