First 911 questions

[wrxnofx]

Where in MN is your 914 located? How often do you come back? It would be awesome to hook up for a beer or check out your 914.

[Mixed76]

Colin,

Very nice builds. Apologies for no comments I've been away from pelican for a long time.

Cool to see the 100mm cylinders with bolt holes and sealing surfaces in the right places vs using 964 or 993 cylinders.

Stock SC rods in the 3.3?

How's the 3.3 powerband with those cams, and did they require heavier valve springs?

Best regards

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[Mixed76]

Seems the leakage around the cylinder heads might be related to the resurfacing work you discovered?

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[colingreene]

Originally Posted by wrxnofx

Where in MN is your 914 located? How often do you come back? It would be awesome to hook up for a beer or check out your 914.

More or less minneapolis, so just north of you.

[colingreene]

Originally Posted by Mixed76

Colin,

Very nice builds. Apologies for no comments I've been away from pelican for a long time.

Cool to see the 100mm cylinders with bolt holes and sealing surfaces in the right places vs using 964 or 993 cylinders.

Stock SC rods in the 3.3?

How's the 3.3 powerband with those cams, and did they require heavier valve springs?

Best regards

Sent from my Pixel 7 using Tapatalk

yes its stock rods from a 3.0, with some ARP bolts in them.
Now that its apart im considering putting nicer rods in it but currently not being employed is slowing that down.

I do have Aasco valve springs and retainers. the powerband is actually really nice to drive. it will drive around just fine but it rips up top.

Here is some of what I had found during tear down.
The chambers are really full of oil and the pistons are covered as well.
Another area for concern to me is these lower spark plug seats. It seems impossible for it to seal with only having a partial seal cut there. I was assured by two engine building experts that this is common and many engines have been built this way. The only way to remedy it would be "laser welding" Ill see what the rest of everyone here says and what my machine shop seems to think is possible.




The cyls have been sent back to EBS in order to give them a look at the cyls and the rings to potentially determine the cause of the oil use. heres what the pistons looked like when removed.
Its pretty nasty stuff. Im honestly impressed the motor ran as well as it did if at all considering the oil volume it was consuming.



The 2.8 is in and running well so far. I have only been able to put about 150 miles on it so far however.
A friend drove it and seemed to also approve of it. As you can see as i mentioned later about fan and alternator depths it has a partially re finished fan assembly in there.



However back to the 3.3 I found some wear on the bores of the pistons where the wrist pins ride that have given me some concerns. ill be having the machine shop check that out for me as i dont have the tools to be able to measure it and check it out.



Also while the 2.8 was being built i re finished the fan housing fan and alternator. however the alternator still makes bearing noise. not thrilled about that after the size of that bill. This was also about the time that I found out that the depth on the fan ring/alternator combo was not the same so i could not use it without re wiring the alternator or so i thought. I was in a hurry you know.



I also noticed that I am missing one of these wing bolts? for the electronics cover so if anyone has one of those I really could use one.

[Mixed76]

I'm no expert. Those deposits look like combustion, maybe not oil?

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[colingreene]

It was using a quart every 160 miles. So it’s definitely unburned oil

[Mixed76]

Truly an impressive oil consumption rate. I would have run it dry at that rate.

Also, I should have remembered that from your post just above.

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[jdmsolberg]

Originally Posted by colingreene

As much as all of this sometimes makes me want to pull my hair out I constantly think about what makes me do all of this. and the picture below is really it.
Being able to go out and treat myself to a little vacation whenever I want either by myself or with friends.

This is what its all about

[porschedude996]

Originally Posted by colingreene

yes its stock rods from a 3.0, with some ARP bolts in them.
Now that its apart im considering putting nicer rods in it but currently not being employed is slowing that down.

I do have Aasco valve springs and retainers. the powerband is actually really nice to drive. it will drive around just fine but it rips up top.

Here is some of what I had found during tear down.
The chambers are really full of oil and the pistons are covered as well.
Another area for concern to me is these lower spark plug seats. It seems impossible for it to seal with only having a partial seal cut there. I was assured by two engine building experts that this is common and many engines have been built this way. The only way to remedy it would be "laser welding" Ill see what the rest of everyone here says and what my machine shop seems to think is possible.




The cyls have been sent back to EBS in order to give them a look at the cyls and the rings to potentially determine the cause of the oil use. heres what the pistons looked like when removed.
Its pretty nasty stuff. Im honestly impressed the motor ran as well as it did if at all considering the oil volume it was consuming.



The 2.8 is in and running well so far. I have only been able to put about 150 miles on it so far however.
A friend drove it and seemed to also approve of it. As you can see as i mentioned later about fan and alternator depths it has a partially re finished fan assembly in there.



However back to the 3.3 I found some wear on the bores of the pistons where the wrist pins ride that have given me some concerns. ill be having the machine shop check that out for me as i dont have the tools to be able to measure it and check it out.



Also while the 2.8 was being built i re finished the fan housing fan and alternator. however the alternator still makes bearing noise. not thrilled about that after the size of that bill. This was also about the time that I found out that the depth on the fan ring/alternator combo was not the same so i could not use it without re wiring the alternator or so i thought. I was in a hurry you know.



I also noticed that I am missing one of these wing bolts? for the electronics cover so if anyone has one of those I really could use one.

I got two from our host.

Link: https://www.pelicanparts.com/cgi-bin/smart/more_info.cgi?pn=900-029-102-02-OEM

$4.74 each

[colingreene]

Update on this without too many pictures unfortunately.

I've removed the pistons and cyls and heads to be sent out to the respective vendors.

The heads have gone to someone different this time.
The report I have received back from them is that while the guides were replaced the valves were not.

here is what they told me.

Disassemble, Clean, Inspect & Evaluate 1980 911-SC Heads. (
Guides have been replaced recently. But the intake guides show
some wear and the Ex. guides were never honed to proper clearance
and are actually Way too tight in the middle. Some less than
.024mm between the Ex. valve stem and the guide. Very surprised
none of them stuck. All guides can be reused once honed to proper
clearance. Intake guides are only about .02mm bigger than spec in
spots. This low mileage wear in the intakes was caused by the
Intake valves not being replaced. Some are taper worn on the stems
by as much as .154mm or .006". Intake valves should have been
replaced! They are Junk! Ex. Valves May be OK to reused once
ground and polished! Seats have been cut quite low,,, but should be
OK to run. Heads have been ported to approx. 39mm with the last
2mm of the port tapered out to 40mm. The Ex. ports are 39.25mm
to 39.5mm. Chambers have been chamfered for 100mm.

Disappointed to find out even after them being sent out to be repaired previously the worn exhaust valves were not caught.
It was also pointed out that the AASCO valve springs were shimmed extremely tight.

The combo of these problems would mean that sooner than later it would seize a valve guide.
Or you know worse.

EBS is telling me that the pistons I have are worn out. Now I have a bit of a problem with this because I previously sent them the pistons and cyls to size them for rings and be replated.
If that was the case that the pistons were worn out how did they not spot that 3k miles ago.
They are also telling me that the motor was "over fueled" When i pushed them harder for an explanation it was not really able to be elaborated on.

Regardless I have decided that Ill work with them and buy a new set of CP pistons and Carrillo rods. the rods mostly because I'm starting to push on the motor pretty hard and I like to rev it. So why not put them in there if its in budget for now.

with new pistons being bought the plan is to shot for a 11:1 compression keep the existing cams and upgrade the heat exchangers to the 41mm SSI versions. hopefully this will eliminate the oil consumption and with everything healthy it will add some performance. not that I really needed it.

[colingreene]

Finally A update with some pictures.

Being I am currently living in Minnesota but the car is in California it does not often afford me time to work on it.
As I mentioned before I put my motor (2.8L twin plug) destined for my 914 into the 911 while I work on the 3.3. This was around Christmas of 2022 when that was done and I had about 200 miles on it between the little bit I was able to drive it and some driving my dad did.



Being that the car had about 200 miles on it and a partial tank of fuel this was my first fill up on a round-trip to Rennsport Reunion.
Yes that's right i decided to break the motor in by driving it about 7-8 hours with LA traffic to Salinas.
My first trip to Rennsport with the car was not possible for some reason, i don't recall why honestly. My 914 may have already been in MN. Unimportant really. What is important is that the car ran like a champ and did not use any oil that I noticed.
While not quite the same amount of power as the 3.3 I can tell you that this 2.8 moves out with two full sized guys in the car and all of our stuff.

The motor did noticeably smooth out about in Santa Barbra on the way back. Weird how that happens. I wonder if its actually a real thing or if as a car person whos' hypercritical of my own work I am imagining things.

We saw all manner of traffic on the trip, some more interesting than others.
The Carrera GT always has been for me a high point of Porsche sports cars so I was thrilled to be behind one. Its still a dream car for me.




I did of course have to check out any and all 914-6 GT while there. I love 914s maybe even more than my 911. Hard to say.



We stayed in Aptos a bit of a hike from the track and one night on the way back I ran across a 914-6 being driven rather aggressively at 90 plus mph on the way back north. It was fun trying to keep up with him. I was not really willing to super break the law or beat on such a fresh motor though.

It was however really nice to see friends and play jokes on each other.
I did have a small starting problem during the trip that lead to the car being push started more than once.
And I did pick up a dent in my rear decklid from someones ill placed helping hand but that is just the way it is sometimes i guess. At the air BNB one of our friends used a ample opportunity while taking in the trash cans to snap this picture. Its often how i describe the car. Trash.



Turned out that the reason why all of that happened was on the way north to Laguna Seca I nearly threw the car off the road like a cheap frisbee.
I had turned off for fuel, and the only option was Valero. we were just south of king city as it turned out so I opted to take a frontage road up to the town.
My friend was watching on the navigation and warned me of a slight left, we got through that without issue.
Then a "Slight right" as you can see in the picture it was not slight.
It was pitch black and my headlights could do with a bit of aiming.
All this to say I was worn out and driving past my prime. It very nearly ended with me going straight off the road in the dark.
The road was completely unmarked by either a centerline or turn signs.
Luckily my fully rebuilt brake system and good tires were more than up to the task to prevent a stupid mistake from destroying my car.
I admit this only to hopefully prevent someone else from doing what I did.

all and all the trip was excellent and I am somewhat sad that this event only happens every 5 years. Time really seems to get past you when you are waiting for the next event...

But this motor checks out and is ready for my 914.
My heads for the 3.3 are back and refurbished by Walt at Competition engineering.
I am measuring the pistons to see if any actual wear occurred or not. Frankly I think the machine shop EBS uses was just being extremely conservative with the "Bad pistons diagnosis"
And hopefully this Christmas/holiday season Ill be able to button up the 3.3 and get it back into the car.
I also picked up a Oil cooler for the 914 to get this 2.8 into it.
That is not even mentioning the 951 that i bought in rough shape I have been working on. But its really what I like doing so. its not all bad.








I did happen to see this 911 on the way out of the track Sunday evening. It looks like what my car would if i backdate it. Its something I think of occasionally but I'm not sure its the right choice. As always I am open to opinions. The second image was cut off so Ill have to do another post and fill in some other details. His was black with a green interior. Very very nice.


here are some other pictures of the car for reference. The primer on the door is where some rust repair took place.

[colingreene]

Added a rear shot of my cars earlier sibling.



We also took the time to go visit Canepa in Scotts valley.
They had plenty of great things to look at.
I could expand on pictures of it but I'm sure everyone else has better pictures than i do.
That being said the overhead shot of the F25 was pretty neat.




Stickers are a common prank our group seemed to be playing on each other this one was a great one.




This 914-6 GT is the picture that just wont show up in my previous post.



and here is my close to ending milage. a last fill up before making it home without major incident.



Hopefully I have more updates soon but that remains to be seen.

[chrisbalich]

Rennsport was a blast. Glad you had a great time.

[colingreene]

Chris, I saw your car at the checked it out party but I did not wind up meeting you.
Car looks awesome.

[colingreene]

I have made 0 progress on fixing the 3.3 motor.
Originally I had planned to buy some Carillo rods for it but that was sort of pushed off track by spending too much time at work on Pelican Parts and finding a set of sport seats.

So here I am, with a haggard pair of sport seats in bad shape that need to be gone though.
they felt expensive to buy but I'm sure I wont care once they are done.
And lets be realistic Im going to buy the rods anyway.

[colingreene]

Back to scream into the void some more.

No real progress over the holiday the only time I actually have to put any time into this.
I did manage to measure the pistons and cyls of my 3.3 they all check out just fine.
That said I do want to have the RA checked on the cyl walls just to be certain that was not my oil consumption issue.
I have my suspicions on what it was but that is not as important as solving it now.
The pistons and cyls measure out exactly the same as they went in before the motor went together proving EBS wrong that the pistons were "worn out" I personally think their engine builder/machine guy just has no clue.
Still like Don though he is a stand up guy.

Fan was finally re finished and the center plated. Got that assembled into a complete fan.





I also had stripped some SC spring plates and had them plated.



Soon ill be able to do the ring on the 2.8 ending my mis matched parts conundrum.

I also stripped down the sport seats I had bought and found them as represented and in largely excellent condition however the seller could not have known whoever worked on them before glued the coverers directly to the foam.
Who the hell does that?
This meant I had to carefully separate the thankfully failing glue from the foam in order to salvage the foam that is largely in good condition.
The parts all came apart for the frames. Only one small weld was broken.
I welded that up and then had to have the frames blasted because they do not fit well in my blaster.
Ill be re shooting the frames in duplicolor acid etch primer to match the color they were previously.
one seat saw some water so it had more rust than the other but ultimately its in good condition.




I am also considering adding seat heating pads to them but jury is still out about that.
if anyone has any feed back on that I welcome it.

[jerrykrug]

Amazing post, just read the whole thing !! - keep the updates coming

[Rodsrsr]

subscribed.

[colingreene]

quick update on the seats, Did manage to get them sand blasted because they did not fit in my harbor freight blaster, one of these days I may upgrade. either way that cost me 60$. Ouch.

Then painted them with duplicolor acid etch primer. Not sure if i want to paint them black or leave as is. This is close to the original color but it wont fully seal the metal off.

Also blasted the sliders cleaned them very thoroughly then painted them black.
need to re grease and work all that out.
not a huge update but it feels like a important one.