Issue with toddc (Todd Candey) at Helion Composites LLC

[SkunkWorks]

Posting here as I've been having considerable issues with receiving a refund from Todd since April and want to check whether other members have been having issues from him.

Coles notes for anyone not wanting to read the whole blurb below. October 2017 I pay for a carbon hood and decklid. Promised two weeks' delivery for the hood and February for the decklid. Receive hood finally in January amid other members' issues with him. April no sign of decklid, am told he'll refund me the $1,000 I paid for it. Partial refund made in May, told I'll have remainder 'in the next few days' with a new reason for the delay, every time I check up. As of today, am still owed $300.

October 2017: I place an order for a carbon hood and make full payment for that along with a $1,000 deposit for the carbon decklid he was supposedly making at the time. I was initially told it would be 2 weeks to make the hood, and the decklid will be ready in February - no problem. I checked in periodically via e-mail but didn't want to rush him as it was nearing holiday season. Didn't think much of it.

January 2018 rolls around and my bodyshop calls me stating they've yet to receive the hood, and the tracking number they received earlier from Todd did not work. Around this time, jimtweet posted his thread on the whereabouts of his carbon parts and several other members, including myself, chimed in with similar issues with Todd.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/porsche-911-technical-forum/984374-people-have-ordered-todd-helion.html

After the posting of that thread, we all received legitimate tracking numbers and all seemed well. Todd blamed the delay on FedEx shipping the wrong hood, a failed venture with production for Singer, and employee issues and he had posted a new thread detailing that he's changed his business practices to ensure it doesn't happen again. I receive my hood late January and so now the attention turned towards the decklid. Below are some snippets of my e-mail correspondence with him. Please keep in mind that I have been following up via e-mail/telephone every 2-3 weeks with each time being told I would receive my refund back 'in the next few days'.

January 23 - "Likely I will have the first production decklid finished mid-February. I am hesitant to put an actual date on it as I cannot predict the unknown."

March 29 - "Tooling went through cure and polish, now it’s prepped and ready for layup of the first part. I hope to start that Saturday, going to be out tomorrow and Sunday for Easter family/church obligations."

Having had zero progress on the decklid since the hood debacle, I told Todd I'd like a refund of my $1,000 deposit if he won't have the decklid completed by the end of April (over two months since his initial promised delivery). No problem, he agrees.

April 16 - "I got the first fiberglass version out and am tweaking a couple of things before I start the carbon layup. It’ll be close. If I can’t get it there, I’ll refund the deposit."

May 5 - Expecting the full amount refunded, I receive only a partial refund of $500. Is not what I agreed to, but I remain patient and understanding, surely after this long the remainder will be sent in a few days right?

"I sent you $500 this morning, will send the remainder in a couple days. Need to get more money into my PP acct."

May 14 - Still nothing. Still patiently waiting... Now he doesn't know when he can send the remainder over.

"I will get the final to you soon however I cannot commit to wether it’s a matter of hours or matter of a couple days. "

May 24 - Finally received $200 as a sign of goodwill. The remaining $300 still outstanding. Am told the remaining will be sent to me as soon as he can.

"I cannot send you the full $500 today however I have just paypal’d you $200 as a show of good faith and will get the $300 balance to you as I can."

June 19 - no response to my e-mails or phone calls between the last e-mail. Still $300 outstanding, all of a sudden there's allegedly now an ID theft on his end.

"I received your email yesterday and your calls today. I’m not ignoring you, I’m trying to wade through a monumental challenge with and identity theft issue that occurred late last week and the resulting banking issues.

I have some funds I can send your way however I need for some things to settle in the next couple of days and will send from the new account as soon as it’s seat and ready. "

July 3 - The 'next couple days' have long since passed since the June e-mail, still no refund from Todd. This is the last e-mail I've received from him and I have had no replies to my e-mail or calls since.

"I’ve not checked pelican recently and I’ve been out of the office for a couple days. I’m trying to get caught up as fast as I can."

Todd - if you're reading this - all I want is for my money to be returned to me. This has been drawn out since April, 9 months if we include the debacle regarding the hood.

[jimtweet]

I am having my own issue with Todd once again. I should have known better after the first two go rounds so shame on me for dealing with him a third time but I thought things would be better.

I was told 6-8 weeks for some parts I’m going on 7.5 months.

[Jeff Higgins]

One thing I have learned in a lifetime of dealing with small, niche market manufacturers, is that they all tend to be honest enthusiasts that often get in over their heads. None of these guys set out to screw anyone. There are far more profitable, lucrative ways to do that than to invest in tooling and what not in an attempt to put just enough pieces out there to attract attention, then screw everyone thereafter.

We are victims of our own optimism and desires. We place orders with these guys, expecting Amazon levels of service and responsiveness. That just isn't how it goes sometimes. Actually, most of the time. They get overwhelmed. They get behind. They have supplier issues, personnel issues, tooling issues, and on and on. Most are trying really hard. Posting your one-sided attack threads against these guys seldom helps resolve your issues with them. Might make you feel better, feel like you "got them", but most don't read this crap anyway. Better to talk to them and understand what is holding them up. And to be patient with them. They are scratching an itch that bigger manufacturers don't even feel.

[jimtweet]

No one said we were expecting overnight amazon delivery, but 7 months is just ridiculous. And not refunding people’s money for promises made is not right.

No matter how good the parts are there’s no room for nonsense like this in this community

Originally Posted by Jeff Higgins

One thing I have learned in a lifetime of dealing with small, niche market manufacturers, is that they all tend to be honest enthusiasts that often get in over their heads. None of these guys set out to screw anyone. There are far more profitable, lucrative ways to do that than to invest in tooling and what not in an attempt to put just enough pieces out there to attract attention, then screw everyone thereafter.

We are victims of our own optimism and desires. We place orders with these guys, expecting Amazon levels of service and responsiveness. That just isn't how it goes sometimes. Actually, most of the time. They get overwhelmed. They get behind. They have supplier issues, personnel issues, tooling issues, and on and on. Most are trying really hard. Posting your one-sided attack threads against these guys seldom helps resolve your issues with them. Might make you feel better, feel like you "got them", but most don't read this crap anyway. Better to talk to them and understand what is holding them up. And to be patient with them. They are scratching an itch that bigger manufacturers don't even feel.

[VWLoosenuts]

Still waiting for my hood since October, was told it would be a 14 day turn around. A month went by and was told it would be created by the end of that week. Still nothing. Piss pour communication if any at all. Communication was great until I paid.


Chalking it up as a loss at this point.


Obviously buyer be ware

[3rd_gear_Ted]

With all due respect to your situations, operating and maintaining the carbon fiber autoclave and the associated process equipment is probably the weak link in their quality engineering chain. Either reliability, quality or regulatory issues have them in a bind when they tried to ramp up production rates, I'm just guessing that everyone is suffering their growing pains.
An Onion has many layers, start peeling them back.
How about a 13/13 compromise???

[LUFTKUL]

I don't get the valiant white knights thrusting the oft parroted Amazon shield. Repeatedly being lied to has nothing to do with expectations of "Amazon levels of service and responsiveness".

toddc, albert356, etc. clearly have problems with taking people's money and not following through with their word. The key here is they never return the money. There is always another excuse.

[Jonny042]

Originally Posted by Jeff Higgins

One thing I have learned in a lifetime of dealing with small, niche market manufacturers, is that they all tend to be honest enthusiasts that often get in over their heads. None of these guys set out to screw anyone. There are far more profitable, lucrative ways to do that than to invest in tooling and what not in an attempt to put just enough pieces out there to attract attention, then screw everyone thereafter.

We are victims of our own optimism and desires. We place orders with these guys, expecting Amazon levels of service and responsiveness. That just isn't how it goes sometimes. Actually, most of the time. They get overwhelmed. They get behind. They have supplier issues, personnel issues, tooling issues, and on and on. Most are trying really hard. Posting your one-sided attack threads against these guys seldom helps resolve your issues with them. Might make you feel better, feel like you "got them", but most don't read this crap anyway. Better to talk to them and understand what is holding them up. And to be patient with them. They are scratching an itch that bigger manufacturers don't even feel.

Well said. Thanks for posting that. And to the OP, keep at it. I'm sure if you keep a cool head things will work out. I do feel for you.

[ssupman]

I ordered mine on October 10 and was also told a 14 day turnaround. Last week I was told it would ship early this week. Well guess what - nothing. I texted Todd yesterday and am still waiting on a reply. I'm trying to be patient but the lack of communication is getting old. If he would just keep us in the loop, reply to a text in a timely manner or send an email I'm sure many would at least feel a little more at ease. Guess I'll just have to give it a little more time but my patience is wearing thin.

[Jeff Higgins]

You folks need to realize that running a very small, niche business like this can put some pretty severe demands on a guy's time. He is quite possibly the only guy in his shop, or maybe he has a few helpers. Even if he does have help, I bet he personally works on or oversees each and every part being made at each and every step of the process.

With that in mind, you must realize that every minute he spends answering his phone, text messages, emails, etc. is time he is not making parts. I have little doubt that many, if not most of his customers start calling, texting, and emailing on that 15th morning when their parts didn't arrive. Multiple times. Until they get an answer. Yep - that's how you get him to hurry up and make your parts...

I have no dog in this fight, and know only what I've read here. Sounds like this vendor has seriously pissed off several customers by failing to follow the golden rules of small business: answer the mail and follow through on commitments, especially with respect to refunds.


That said, I see a lot of general sense in Jeff's comments. I owned and ran a small business for seven years, and to me this looks like a cash flow issue. It can happen really really fast--you lose a big order, something breaks, or--worst of all--somebody fails to pay you, putting you in a pinch. And few business owners are willing to fess up to running out of money. Especially if there are orders on the books.

I don't know which of these it is in this case, but I bet it's the dreaded CF.

Sorry this happened, guys. Hope you get your money back.

[sugarwood]

Thank you for exposing these liars and scammers.

The vendor could have easily said, "Look, I ran out of money, the production is way behind, and I am sorry. I will try to have your money when this disaster settles. I am unable to pay you back because I do not have your money anymore. I am sorry and I am doing my best to get your hood done."

It took me 12 seconds to write that sentence above
which could be pasted to all customers left hanging.

Getting in over your head with delays is one thing.
Lying and going silent is another.

[Jack Stands]

It’s a shame as it seems he does make some interesting parts. I certainly hope he can get through his issues successfully as these small niche outfits are always appreciated for their unique products that no large manufacturer would want to deal with.

[dsfnctn]

Originally Posted by Jack Stands

It’s a shame as it seems he does make some interesting parts. I certainly hope he can get through his issues successfully as these small niche outfits are always appreciated for their unique products that no large manufacturer would want to deal with.

I fixed it for you

It’s a shame as it seems he does make some interesting parts. I certainly hope he can get through his issues successfully as these small niche outfits are always underpaid for their unique products that no large manufacturer would want to deal with.[/QUOTE]

[nickd]

Are there others also waiting on items from Todd? Has anyone been in touch with him? Has anyone received anything from him lately?

I've been patient with the delays in receiving two carbon hoods, but he's suddenly gone radio silent. No response from messages left on his helion.com, gmail, and voicemail. I have a credit card chargeback option available, but would much prefer for this to have a happy ending.

Todd, you were logged into pelican just a few hours ago. What's going on?

[tdw28210]

More information near the end of the thread. Certainly not resolution for some, but information nonetheless.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/porsche-911-used-parts-sale-wanted/918600-helion-composites-74-short-hoods-sale-6.html

[toddc]

Originally Posted by nickd

Are there others also waiting on items from Todd? Has anyone been in touch with him? Has anyone received anything from him lately?

I've been patient with the delays in receiving two carbon hoods, but he's suddenly gone radio silent. No response from messages left on his helion.com, gmail, and voicemail. I have a credit card chargeback option available, but would much prefer for this to have a happy ending.

Todd, you were logged into pelican just a few hours ago. What's going on?

Nick,

Bear with me. I too would like to see a happy outcome for all parties.
I owe you and several others a call and a status update. I'll reach out as soon as I have a moment to clear my head.

I'm traveling for day job at the moment and trying to keep a handle on the back orders. It's a challenge.
I haven't gone radio silent on purpose.
I'll get back to everyone as soon as I can.

Thank you for your patience,

Todd