When a 911 barn find happens in real life...

[Mikesavina]

Originally Posted by sugarwood

Already putting the project on hold is a massive red flag. You stepped in ****, scored a deal for $5k, but don't sound prepared for this magnitude of a project. Trust your gut. The timing and budget and score all seem wrong. Flip it and avoid a 5 year headache that might never even come to fruition. Take the profit, and get paid for the barn find leg work. Sunk cost fallacy. Get the car running, add value, and let it go to someone willing to dump $30k into it. Take the money and run. There is no shame in making a prudent levelheaded calculated decision.

Not on hold just yet. But my feet are feeling a bit chilly

[RWebb]

if it helps any... I've seen old guys die while their 356 was still on a rotisserie


if it helps any... I've never seen a young guy die while this 911 was still on a rotisserie

[Mikesavina]

Originally Posted by RWebb

if it helps any... I've seen old guys die while their 356 was still on a rotisserie


if it helps any... I've never seen a young guy die while this 911 was still on a rotisserie

Hopefully I won’t be the first 😆

[NYNick]

Make an informed decision Mike. You're not losing money while you figure it out.

[NeedSpace]

Originally Posted by NYNick

Make an informed decision Mike. You're not losing money while you figure it out.

Agreed, there isn't a rush, it spent many years in the barn, won't hurt to sit in your garage. That said, depending on how bad that rust is, simply getting the engine running to get on the road may not be a great option.

But remember this. True collectors don't "own" cars, we are simply their caretakers for a few years. Keeping these cars from the crusher or reclaimed to the earth is our first goal. I've had my mercedes for almost 20, my 911 for almost 10; at some point we'll pass these children on to new parents who will hopefully care for them as we have. Maybe your part of the story was simply rescuing this car for another to restore, or maybe you drop a wade of cash and build your dream 911 but in my view you've already saved it. And you have an amazing story that you get to say over and over again (like when I almost bought a tucker on ebay)!

[Mikesavina]

Originally Posted by NeedSpace

Agreed, there isn't a rush, it spent many years in the barn, won't hurt to sit in your garage. That said, depending on how bad that rust is, simply getting the engine running to get on the road may not be a great option.

But remember this. True collectors don't "own" cars, we are simply their caretakers for a few years. Keeping these cars from the crusher or reclaimed to the earth is our first goal. I've had my mercedes for almost 20, my 911 for almost 10; at some point we'll pass these children on to new parents who will hopefully care for them as we have. Maybe your part of the story was simply rescuing this car for another to restore, or maybe you drop a wade of cash and build your dream 911 but in my view you've already saved it. And you have an amazing story that you get to say over and over again (like when I almost bought a tucker on ebay)!

At this point It’s looking like I may just be the one that had the pleasure of saving it from complete destruction. I’ve been doing a ton of research and soul searching and I’m afraid that I simply can’t afford to give the car the proper restoration it deserves even if I were to stretch it out for many years. It is absolutely ripping me apart to know that my dream car is sitting in the garage but I’m not going to be able to be the one to bring it back to glory but how can I complain..it’s one hell of a thing to find and I’m honored to have been the lucky person to dig it out. I’ve come to a decision that I’m going to fix a couple of little things I already have parts for (and because I want to enjoy the time I have with it) and probably put it up On one of the auctions. I’m really hoping that it gets me at least close money wise to purchasing another 911 that would be more manageable for me such as a driver quality SC but I honestly don’t know. If it doesn’t get me closer to that range then I may just stick it in the garage and drink a beer with it a couple of times per week and dream.

I thank each and every person here for being so welcoming and supportive. You all are a great example of why I love the car community.

[evilfij]

Before you throw in the towel, you should do some more investigating. The car sat on dirt for a long time. That eats from the bottom up. The top of the car looks pretty decent. Do the doors open and close ok? How are longitudinals? What is terminal? Remember, this car will never be a concours quality car, nor does it need to be. It could be useable with just floors and a front suspension pan and some patches. Useable. Perfect is the enemy of done remember.

A set of floorpans are under $300. Same for the front suspension pan. You said you have done VW, it’s no different.

My suggestion, get it running. Service it, it turns, it should run. That is great motivation. And it does not cost much. Maybe even run it up and down the driveway to see if the trans works. Remove the interior carpet and seats, that’s easy and will let you see the other sins to see if it is worth fixing. And it won’t hurt the value. And winter is coming. Now is the time to get the project rolling, not the time to maximize sale price.

Take the yellow pad approach and see how much it costs to get it running, driving, and safe. Bare minimum.

[Mikesavina]

Originally Posted by evilfij

Before you throw in the towel, you should do some more investigating. The car sat on dirt for a long time. That eats from the bottom up. The top of the car looks pretty decent. Do the doors open and close ok? How are longitudinals? What is terminal? Remember, this car will never be a concours quality car, nor does it need to be. It could be useable with just floors and a front suspension pan and some patches. Useable. Perfect is the enemy of done remember.

A set of floorpans are under $300. Same for the front suspension pan. You said you have done VW, it’s no different.

My suggestion, get it running. Service it, it turns, it should run. That is great motivation. And it does not cost much. Maybe even run it up and down the driveway to see if the trans works. Remove the interior carpet and seats, that’s easy and will let you see the other sins to see if it is worth fixing. And it won’t hurt the value. And winter is coming. Now is the time to get the project rolling, not the time to maximize sale price.

Take the yellow pad approach and see how much it costs to get it running, driving, and safe. Bare minimum.

I have done vw pans and suspension but with the heavy body stuff that requires more skill I have phoned a friend. my father and I even put longitudinals in my 914. I’m ok with a welder but far from an expert. From doing all that I have I know one thing for certain...they never go like you think and there is always a surprise. I’m trying to take in all the advice I have received and make a decision and it’s tough to do. I don’t want to make the wrong call. The doors open and close beautifully and the lock posts even look good from the inside of the quarter. There are really good things and then the not so good stuff. Its all the normal early car rot. I took the yellow pad approach and I estimated the parts and multiplied it by 2 to cover the unknowns. The minimum rust repairs (pans,rockers, rear seat pan) suspension rebuild, brake rebuild with all new lines, full fuel system rebuild including carbs, wiring...the list is more extensive than just floor pans, it’s a full project on its own.

[Mikesavina]

Just sitting here at 2 am contemplating my next move. Pulled back the carpet and the inner rockers are surprisingly solid. Should I stay or should I go? Such a tough decision

[evilfij]

That the inner rockers looking good is consistent with the rotted from bottom up due to being on dirt. Pull the seats, see what else you can see.

The outer rockers and rear seat pans can wait. No shame in some rust in the former and no shame in a boge repair on the latter. Cut out the rust at the bottom of the seat pans, bash some sheet metal to about the right shape, weld/rivet it in, seam seal (or caulk if you are really going budget). Stored inside where no more water can get it from bad seals, it will be fine. You don’t need to buy the replacement panels unless it is really bad. You can do the rockers when you have time and money to paint it.

Brakes, you do absolutely need brakes, but are the metal lines rusted out? All of them? Even so the complete brake line kit is $140. Rubber lines and rebuild kits for the calipers and MC are cheap.

Suspension, steering, what is shot/unsafe now? Suspension is a weekend or two and some money when you have both down the road. And it does not have to be the most expensive stuff available to be fine. If it gets KYB and URO instead of bilstein and Elephant facing, I don’t think you (or your daughter) will love it any less.

What’s wrong with the wiring? Have you hooked up a battery and started checking things?

Carbs? How do they look? One advantage of it sitting for so long is that it probably did not have ethanol fuel in it to destroy everything. After you change the oil, pull the plugs, dump atf in the cylinders and spin it over, check valve adjustment etc. or however you want to get it prepped for a first start, see if it runs as is. If nothing else, a running engine will add a lot to sale value.

The other consideration is that the market for early cars, especially rough ones, is not what it was. There is no way this car is an economical top flight restoration where someone could make money paying someone to do the work so that is going to hamper the price you get. And, the SC or whatever you buy with the proceeds may need a lot of the same work this one does save the rust repair.

Another thought to consider, just because it needs it, and it’s going to cost money, does not mean you need to buy it now. There are plenty of inexpensive/free things you can start and do while you consider options. If nothing else, going through the needs and knocking some of them off will make it a more compelling sale ad.

I don’t mean to sound so interested, but, while not a Porsche, I recently saved a vehicle (not quite this far gone) which I did for my SO. It was very satisfying and not that expensive because I set out with the idea it would not be perfect. I did a bunch of rust repair (still have a bit to go but I did quick and dirty patches for now where not structural and I am not a great welder of sheet metal), full service, some exhaust, replaced all the brake lines, cleaned out the interior carpet, got some rubber mats for cheap and threw on some seat covers (used off craigslist from a Porsche of all things), replaced all the brake lines, replaced the MC, wheel cylinders etc. bought some inexpensive tires, fixed 90% of the little stuff wrong (leaking lines, sendors, replaced bulbs and a couple lights), got it to where I felt it was safe enough, and started driving it. A couple things popped up as one would expect, but I addressed them (completely irrelevant to this car, but I fixed the computer with three capacitors which saved me several hundred dollars). On the other hand, some stuff I thought I would have to do, turned out to be fine (suspension for one).

[NYNick]

Keeping digging Mike and keep thinking.

[RWebb]

think about stiffening the body structure too - Dave B. (TRE) did this on a raspberry car and it was a yuge improvement

[Mikesavina]

...I can’t do it. I just can’t bring myself to let it go. Even with the financial ramifications and all of the excellent points that have been made. It’s an opportunity I won’t get back and the car is calling me.So stay tuned because I’m starting work tomorrow. It’s been a rollercoaster of emotions and thoughts but I’m settling in. Also there will be a very nice driver of a 944 for sale soon

[Mikesavina]

This is the reason my feet got cold. But after talking to a man that has been very helpful to me he has reassured me. This was my overall biggest safety concern

[davekillen]

I've been leisurely restoring a '69 912 for many years and from the sills down it looked not dissimilar to your car when I started (plus more... in mine the inner and outer rockers, plus the parcel shelf, were completely shot). You can do it, just dive in and take your time.

If I were doing it all over again, I would seriously consider building an "octisserie" rather than the traditional rotisserie I built out of a couple of engine stands. I think the octisserie (see Fishcop's thread and others) would be easier to deal with if you have the space.

Another good resource if you haven't seen it already is another 912 restoration: DarrylD's Porsche 912 Restoration Project Journal. He's got a ton of good documentation on some of the sheet metal replacement you'll be undertaking.

Here are some (pretty random) photos from my project over the years. I was in my late 20's when I started and am in my early 40's now and have learned a lot along the way. Not that it has to take anywhere near that long! I just always have a lot of other stuff going on and am patient by nature. At this point I've decided it'll be a 911 when I'm done... I've rebuilding a 2.2 alongside it.

hope this helps somehow!

[Cairo94507]

Wow. I hope you decide to tackle the project and end up driving your dream car. These cars are emotional roller coaster rides for sure. The only advise I would offer is to pay for everything as you go and never put any of it on a credit or take out a loan to build the car. In the end you would resent the car. Come up with a solid plan for the restoration so you are not taking two steps forward and one backward. Best wishes and keep us all posted. Cheers.

[1980 SC Targa]

The only advise I would offer is to pay for everything as you go and never put any of it on a credit or take out a loan to build the car.

I agree with Cairo here. Don't overextend yourself financially. The dream of having a 911 is already yours. Take your time. Do what you can afford to do at the time then save up and do something else. Eventually that list will get shorter and shorter. If you haven't seen it look up Mike M on YouTube - he has a fantastic video series of restoring his Porsche still in progress.

[blucille]

Originally Posted by Mikesavina

I’m ok with the welder but wouldn’t say talented, the time and money is the thing that’s starting to put doubt in my mind.

I'll bet you will be a great welder when you complete this project.

We are all rooting for you.....

[ryans65]

If you have a place to keep it for a few years I would start the disassembly process as soon as you can. By some nice rubbermaid tubs and catalog everything as you tear it down, don't throw ANYTHING away unless its truly unusable garbage. Put the engine in a corner and forget about it, it is meaningless to the project until the chassis is usable. I think your outlook on the project will brighten as soon as you have a blank canvas so to say. Its amazing the energy you will have for the project once its down to its bones and thoroughly pressure washed inside/ outside. Focus on one major area at a time and dont skip around thats where projects go awry and end up in the classified section. Establish a goal of where you want the project to be whether its simply a structurally sound driver or a full resto. Don't set a date goal, you will easily exceed that .... if you absolutely have to put a date on it then take what you think is reasonable and double it. Do one thing every single day, it might be 1:30am Christmas morning or just after thanksgiving dinner but tack weld that panel, strip the rest of that fender, weld that one rust pinhole whatever just do something. People will think you are crazy, thats ok they just don't have anything special going on in their own lives. They will jealously live through you but never let you know how ****ing cool it is. The ones that actually care about you will want to help with the project!! Keep them around, give them beer, food and respect. Good luck and if you are reading this you could have done something to the car instead of being on Pelican.

[Mikesavina]

Originally Posted by davekillen

I've been leisurely restoring a '69 912 for many years and from the sills down it looked not dissimilar to your car when I started (plus more... in mine the inner and outer rockers, plus the parcel shelf, were completely shot). You can do it, just dive in and take your time.

If I were doing it all over again, I would seriously consider building an "octisserie" rather than the traditional rotisserie I built out of a couple of engine stands. I think the octisserie (see Fishcop's thread and others) would be easier to deal with if you have the space.

Another good resource if you haven't seen it already is another 912 restoration: DarrylD's Porsche 912 Restoration Project Journal. He's got a ton of good documentation on some of the sheet metal replacement you'll be undertaking.

Here are some (pretty random) photos from my project over the years. I was in my late 20's when I started and am in my early 40's now and have learned a lot along the way. Not that it has to take anywhere near that long! I just always have a lot of other stuff going on and am patient by nature. At this point I've decided it'll be a 911 when I'm done... I've rebuilding a 2.2 alongside it.

hope this helps somehow!

That’s looking great! Great work! I’ve been doing the same on my wife’s karmann ghia for the last 5 years. 95% of the metal work is done and I pretty much have everything to finish it I just lost my mojo. But now I have to get it done and off to paint before I can jump fully into this 911 but I’m going to start and do what I can in the meantime. I’ve looked at those octiseerie things but I just don’t have the space for one