My First 911: Should it be a 930/G-50 or a 996?

[I Wanna 911]

Originally Posted by boomvang

I am lucky enough to own both a 996.2 and an '83 SC. The newer car is much faster stock, handles like it's glued to the ground and as others have noted, is a modern car in most ways that count, while still retaining that 911 rear-engined feel. That said, it lacks the hand built quality of the SC, and is more difficult, but not impossible,to wrench. if you have not already, I suggests checking out the 996 forum on Rennlist, a good group of people and a great resource for information.
The older car is much more visceral, the sounds and smells, the feel of the steering is it's own reward. Good luck in your hunt.

Boom & Gang: Thanks again to you and all the great posters. This is just so much fun.

I'm not going to cross off the SC just yet. I DO like wrenching and fiddling, lack of electronics and smog, etc; I LOVE the whine and clatter of the true aircooled engine; I love everything about the aircooled design, and that has always been my dream.

Is there ANY way to retrofit any kind of decent aftermarket A/C into an SC, at any price (which I might be willing to pay), or am I just looking at driving in hot weather with the windows open (which I'm not 100% opposed to)? Again, I'm just exploring.

A couple more things: I also love the old body style with the prominent bug-eyed headlamps up to the 964. Another huge plus for me. The SC is a sweet looking ride.

Finally, I should mention that I have no desires to run this at Willow Springs or in any other track situation. And although I do plan to drive it plenty, I don't see it as ever being an everyday driver.

Oh, one more thing. In CA, can you get reduced insurance rates on the SC as a vintage vehicle, if driven a limited number of miles per year?

Decisions, decisions....

Thanks!
Scott

[I Wanna 911]

The 915 tranny doesn't concern me at all. I'm not that finicky.

Will these engines run out to 200K if well maintained? I've heard they're real workhorses.

Thanks Again,
Scott

[megerian]

Scott - Ignore all other advice and get an 80s vintage air-cooled 911 :-) Let's face it, are you really gonna base your lifelong dream purchase on having good A/C ? Are you actually going to commute to work in LA traffic in this car? Based on your comments about limited miles per year, I dont think that should sway your decision. If you are willing to spend some serious time scouring the ads and the websites, you can find a nice air-cooled example that isnt going cost more than a new Ford Explorer. You won't regret it, they are classics for a reason, and fun to work on. Parts are plentiful, and the Pelican air-cooled forum is the single best resource available anywhere.

[Showdown]

Griffith and Classic Retrofit both have aftermarket AC solutions ranging from 3-5k give or take depending on your equipment and wants/needs

On my hunt for a 911 I was told that all air cooled 911s are $50k cars regardless of the sticker price; pay 30k and expect 20k of maintenance, parts, upgrades and “while I’m here” stuff, pay 10k for the car; 40k to get it right, etc... just something to keep in mind that almost no 30k car will be good to go at purchase and that price/project creep is real.

The one great thing about the air cooled cars is that you literally can do just about everything yourself with enough time, tools and Pelican forum searches.

But I say to hell with it and get the SC, you won’t regret it and even if you do, you’ll have no trouble selling it.

[I Wanna 911]

I like the way the last two posters are thinking. The SC really fits my dream. And no, I won't be doing any bumper to bumper driving in LA traffic since I don't have that kind of commute. And yeah, I figure $10,000 or more for repairs and upkeep going in. As you say, with this forum and all the Youtube vids etc., I can cut down my costs by doing the less complex work myself.

Cool.

Scott

[jons911]

My SC's AC did not work when I got it. I've survived South Texas and Florida summers with it as a daily. Sure it's not the greatest, but clearly it hasn't been bad enough to do something about it yet. Although I have been looking at redoing it recently along with the heat to show the car some love. I've been looking at Griffiths and for my car it looked like I could replace absolutely everything for about $3k.

[winders]

My wife has a 997 and she misses our 911SC with a 3.2L setup for autox. She would trade back in a second and so would I.

[Mark Salvetti]

How about a mid-year car? I would think a well-sorted 1974-1977 911 (maybe with a preference for 1974 or 1975) for $30K is going to need less work than an SC in that price range. I know prices for those cars have been going up, but it might be a better option.

Mark

[I Wanna 911]

Originally Posted by Mark Salvetti

How about a mid-year car? I would think a well-sorted 1974-1977 911 (maybe with a preference for 1974 or 1975) for $30K is going to need less work than an SC in that price range. I know prices for those cars have been going up, but it might be a better option.

Mark

Mark, thanks. Always open to other cars.

Scott

[I Wanna 911]

Hey, Folks, just for the sake of discussion, here's an SC from a completed auction on BaT. Troubleshoot this ad for me and tell me why this car sold so cheaply and what kind of work might be necessary.

It appears it was repainted in a non-factory paint, which I'm sure brings the value down. What sort of issues would one expect to encounter in such a vehicle?

https://bringatrailer.com/listing/1978-porsche-911sc-3-0-15/



BTW, I doubt I'd buy on that site. I'm much more interested in finding a local car and taking it to a top mechanic. I don't mind paying extra for that. But just curious.

Thank You.
Scott

[jons911]

Who knows with that site. I once bid on a decent looking 930 and somehow ended up the winning bid at like $25k. Obviously it didn't meet the reserve and I didn't buy the car, but it was strange to see. From the auction page it seems the comments are along my line of thinking in that it provides generic information that is mostly useless. All I learned was that it's a targa with replica Fuchs and a new brake master cylinder. I would say the detractors are probably paint color, targa vs coupe, replica Fuchs, non original interior, and a missing AC compressor. None of these is inherently a lower value, but I could see it making an effect, especially combined with lack of information on the engine, clutch, and transmission. Although the missing AC compressor but still having the line just hanging there would suggest all of the AC system is still present, so you get all the weight without a functioning AC.

[WPOZZZ]

I think that price is about right for that car.

[megerian]

Folks on BAT really value originality and a very engaged seller that answers all questions. I think the price of that car is fair. Had it been an original color with fewer aftermarket parts, and a seller that answered all questions, it may have fetched 5-10K more.

Question for you: would you have considered that car for that final price?

[Flojo]

Originally Posted by I Wanna 911

If possible, I would like to keep the purchase price under $30,000. I also like the idea of tinkering and doing some of the basic maintenance on the vehicle myself -- brakes, oil, plugs etc.

in average all you'll get for that money will BE a car you'll have to adress issues, may it be of the technical kind, the optical kind or probably both.

and when you dig in deeper, because you notice by yourself or learn here on the forum, you'll hate yourself not having done a full restoration right away.

I have seen so many cars that looked nice or ran nice or even did both… but these were old cars nonetheless and the bad was hídden about everywhere.

if you want to buy a 30k car you'll need a 20k extra on the long run..

Originally Posted by I Wanna 911

The 915 tranny doesn't concern me at all. I'm not that finicky.

good. because good 915s are great to shift. the early gear ratios are nice.

Originally Posted by I Wanna 911

Will these engines run out to 200K if well maintained? I've heard they're real workhorses.

absolutely. regularly give them oil- and filter changes and TLC and they'll go 400k

[TxGerman]

Originally Posted by Showdown

Griffith and Classic Retrofit both have aftermarket AC solutions ranging from 3-5k give or take depending on your equipment and wants/needs

On my hunt for a 911 I was told that all air cooled 911s are $50k cars regardless of the sticker price; pay 30k and expect 20k of maintenance, parts, upgrades and “while I’m here” stuff, pay 10k for the car; 40k to get it right, etc... just something to keep in mind that almost no 30k car will be good to go at purchase and that price/project creep is real.

The one great thing about the air cooled cars is that you literally can do just about everything yourself with enough time, tools and Pelican forum searches.

But I say to hell with it and get the SC, you won’t regret it and even if you do, you’ll have no trouble selling it.

I agree 100% with Showdown. By the time I'm done sorting my '82, I will be right in that price range as well. Got it for ~$30 with 72k mi, will easily have ~$20 more into it when it's all refreshed and sorted.

Dennis

[Harpo]

My wife has a 996 cab that is a lot of fun to drive but very complicated to work on. If your buying a car as a DD then get a 996 that has had the IMS & RMS replaced. If your mechanically inclined and plan on doing your own wrenching then get an air cooled car.

[paul_howey]

Originally Posted by TxGerman

I agree 100% with Showdown. By the time I'm done sorting my '82, I will be right in that price range as well. Got it for ~$30 with 72k mi, will easily have ~$20 more into it when it's all refreshed and sorted.

Dennis

Yup 100%.

I talk to a lot of people that want to get into aircooled 911's and they are often working with 15k-25k.

^ I usually always recommend that they pick up a 986/987 boxster/cayman instead.

Why? Because not only will they end up having to spend another 20-40k getting the car right, I personally don't think your initial experience with any car should be a restoration. Unless of course, you have prior experience doing so.

Buy the car that you can hop in and go have fun.

The same scenario often comes up in the 30-40k price point and I hear buyers who want to get into a long hood car at that price but I usually recommend an SC instead.

You can find a great driver SC for 30-40k that may need a couple of grand in bits here and there but a long hood car at that price likely needs 10's of thousands of work before it will be something you want to drive.

I think that's really where it pays off to be hyper self-aware about how far YOU want to go with this. Some buyers will be perfectly satisfied getting into a 12-24 month restoration while the nice driving months pass them by, and other buyers will get frustrated by this process and end up selling the car.

The other side of this is that there is a BIG difference between driving a well-sorted early 911 and a car that is clearly tired (engine, suspension, trans, etc). This is another reason to buy the best condition car you can afford at your price point. Buying the wrong 911 can totally sour your experience and opinion of the car.

[eastbay]

I have owned both. A 996/7 is a modern car and an air cooled is not. If you want comfort and safety the 996/7 wins hands down. Additionally, you have a much better chance of perpetually passing smog trauma free with a 996. 996s are easy to work on, don't understand people who say otherwise.

When shopping for a 996/7 the must haves are full leather interior and 18" wheels.

If it's 90 degrees or higher and an hour of stop and go traffic, the water pumper wins every single time.

[Tremelune]

The issue with '74-75 cars is California smog. They go for more than SCs because they're exempt.

For all these cars, condition is king.

[I Wanna 911]

Originally Posted by Tremelune

The issue with '74-75 cars is California smog. They go for more than SCs because they're exempt.

For all these cars, condition is king.

Makes sense. 1975. Now that's an old vehicle.

In terms of chassis and handling, is it pretty much the same on the older cars and the G50?

Thanks,
Scott