Engine number decode help??

[CaptRudolf]

Hello all. Brand new to this forum (purchased Pelican Parts for other various German cars, however). I recently inherited my fathers 1972 Porsche 911T (title actually says 1982, so I have to get that fixed - interested if anyone knows how to 'prove' this to the DMV). Unfortunately in all of my fathers paperwork I have not found any good details on the car. When he bought it he told me that the owner had installed a later model, higher displacement engine, and I am trying to figure it which engine it is. It is still badged as a 2.7, but I think he said it was a 3.0.

Long prelude to ask for help getting the info on this engine number: 6450720.

Many thanks in advance!

[jbell959]

You have a 1975 US 911S 2.7

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[CaptRudolf]

Thank you! Just realized that the Porsche engine number wiki page is pretty deep with this info: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Porsche_engines#Porsche_911_(901/911/930/964/993/996/997/991/992)

Sorry for spamming up the boards!

[tdw28210]

Welcome Cap'n. No worries about spamming up the forums. You have a legitimate question and inquired here. A 1972 is particularly cool year.. Does it have a little flap door near the rear to add oil to the engine?

Probably too soon in your membership here for you to post pics (think you need 10 posts first) but please do when you can.

Sounds like a previous owner (PO) swapped in a 2.7 after removing what would have been a 2.2.

Anyway, congrats on the car. It can be an absolute joy to drive and own- especially if you enjoy an analog driving experience and like getting your hands dirty. Any earlier 911 is particularly valuable, especially a "longhood" like this one.

As for fixing the title, really will be state dependent. Hopefully there is still some little metal plates on it with numbers that should convey the true year- once translated . Check the edges of the front trunk area or near the opening up front by something called the "smugglers box" Should be a number stamped near there that indicates the year of manufacture Share what you find back here. . Good luck and congrats.

[alexsunny123]

Originally Posted by tdw28210

Welcome Cap'n. No worries about spamming up the forums. You have a legitimate question and inquired here. A 1972 is particularly cool year.. Does it have a little flap door near the rear to add oil to the engine?

Probably too soon in your membership here for you to post pics (think you need 10 posts first) but please do when you can.

Sounds like a previous owner (PO) swapped in a 2.7 after removing what would have been a 2.2.

Anyway, congrats on the car. It can be an absolute joy to drive and own- especially if you enjoy an analog driving experience and like getting your hands dirty. Any earlier 911 is particularly valuable, especially a "longhood" like this one.

As for fixing the title, really will be state dependent. Hopefully there is still some little metal plates on it with numbers that should convey the true year- once translated . Check the edges of the front trunk area or near the opening up front by something called the "smugglers box" Should be a number stamped near there that indicates the year of manufacture Share what you find back here. . Good luck and congrats.

thanks for the awesome information.

[CaptRudolf]

Thanks for making me feel welcome! It DOES have the oil filler flap - or it did anyway, I seem to recall we pulled the release many years ago, the [strongly sprung] door whipped open and the [aluminum??] bracket snapped and the door went flying. I'm sure it is still around somewhere (and that a new bracket is $1000).

Pictures below. The car has been sitting in an airplane hangar for WAY too long, so I am assuming I will have to rebuild the injection system (I believe since the engine is a '75 that it is a CIS?? - I'll post some pictures in a few days).

I think the reason my dad stopped driving it is because it had a pretty severe oil leak. He actually paid to have the engine removed and 'split' and a new gasket (??) installed and the leak persisted. Talked to a local expert and he believed it is just one of the external oil connections toward the top of the engine. My dad then went out and bought a DeLorean, which I am now selling because it doesn't hold much appeal to me.

Anyway, thanks again. I didn't realize that this was a particularly valuable car. Curious what it might be worth, but more interested in getting it running and driving. I'm about to order the '101 Projects for Your 911' and the '911 Performance Handbook'. Was thinking about getting the 'technical manual' as well, but it seems like I would want the 1975 version of that as much of it pertains to the engine - so I'm going to hold off on that for the moment.

Any other resource recommendations are greatly appreciated! Searching this forum and the Pelican website have already been immensely helpful.

[CaptRudolf]

All of that said, maybe the first steps involve draining and replacing the fuel, putting a new battery in it, hitting the key and seeing what happens???

[tdw28210]

Originally Posted by CaptRudolf

All of that said, maybe the first steps involve draining and replacing the fuel, putting a new battery in it, hitting the key and seeing what happens???

I'd verify the engine still turns by hand first. Maybe change the oil and filter and then try after that. FYI, These cars take a LOT of oil. If it turns over, then new gas and a battery might be good next steps.

The leaks could be from a variety places and for a variety of reasons. It might seals on covers, oil return tubes .....or even pricey-er reasons.

As for value,if it doesn't have any significant rust (It can be hidden) a nice "driver" 1972 Targa can be in the 70k's. The engine swap probably actually hurts the value for a couple reasons though:

1) 2.7 engines aren't the most desirable of the Porsche motors, despite being larger - especially leaky ones.
2) Original motors with original cars get the highest values.

Has the car been repainted? If not, that helps the value. Post some pics of the numbers you find on the car. Also, post some pics of the engine. Might be able to do a little sleuthing on if it was "updgraded" at some point. Would be good to see an 11 blade fan instead of a 5 blade.

[CaptRudolf]

More great points! I'm in between the idea of doing an oil change, checking turn-over (it ran when parked...), gas & key OR find the oil leak, then do all of that. I'm guessing I'll have to drop the engine to find the leak. Maybe clean it all first, then try to get it running, THEN look where I have oil...

Just went to the hangar and checked it out - it DOES have an 11 blade fan... so what does that mean?? This is the CIS injection system, correct?

The paint is in pretty rough shape and it seems like the decals are original, but I'm not sure how I can confirm original paint or a bad re-paint.

I'm about to pull the trigger on ordering three books/manuals: '101 projects...', '911 Performance Handbook', 'How to Rebuild & Modify 911 Engines'. Any input on that selection? I'm looking forward to getting more familiar with this car!!

[CaptRudolf]

Pretty sure most of the brakes are seized up too.

[Matt Monson]

To prove the year, photograph the vin in the front trunk and windshield. Then take a copy of a vin decoder, along with the title, to your local DMV.

[tdw28210]

Yeah, so you won't necessarily need to drop the motor to find the leaks. It can easily be the lower valve covers or oil return tubes. I'd jack it up, put it on some safe jack stands, hit the underside with a bunch of brake cleaner and add the oil and crank it by hand. Sure it may leak a bunch but you will then know if it will turn over or not. Plus you'll be able to better zero in on the leak sources.

The 11 blade fan MAY indicate the motor has been upgraded - specifically if it CAME with a 5 blade originally. Typical updates for 2.7's are hydraulic chain tensioners, improved head studs, thermal reactor removal and turbo valve covers. This 10 year-old thread below seems to say that 1975 motors already did have 11 blade fans,so that may not indicate all that much. But the fan pulley in your picture looks to be more recent. I don;t know for sure. Hopefully some real mid-year ('74-'77) experts will weigh in on this and hopefully this 2.7 got some good upgrades along the way.

https://forums.pelicanparts.com/porsche-911-technical-forum/579552-76-911-what-smog-equipment-calif.html

And yeah the paint looks original-ish as do the rear stickers, so that could be good news. How's the interior?

[CaptRudolf]

Interior is/was okay when parked. Haven't looked too closely recently. Making some space for it so I can get it up on the lift. I just started a 'build thread' with a title that will, hopefully, attract some more input. So, moving this discussion here: https://forums.pelicanparts.com/porsche-911-technical-forum/1100884-help-me-get-72t-back-road.html#post11438663