76 911, what smog equipment for Calif?

911st · 12-09-2010, 11:15 PM

Did a 76 911 have an air pump?

What other smog equipment did it have?

Any Lambda function?

Wonder what it is supposed to have to pass CA smog test?

I am guessing CIS and reactors?

Can the thermal reactors be replaced with a cat or removed?

I would guess most are not working or available at this point.

RoninLB · 12-10-2010, 12:26 AM

i have a 1977 sold new in LA and smog restrictions are the worst in history for my car

if i had to cater to legit Calif smog testing i either wouldn't buy the car or have a spare engine package to flip every two years for certification

JP911 · JP911's Garage

Complete CIS and exhaust gas recirc system that includes the smog pump. I managed to pass several times with SSIs (no thermal reactors). FYI, 78 was the first year a cat was used on the 911.

911st · 12-10-2010, 07:27 AM

So they did have an air injection pump like the 78-9 SC's?

juanbenae · juanbenae's Garage

Quote:

Originally Posted by 911st

So they did have an air injection pump like the 78-9 SC's?

yes. stay clear of a 76, look harder for an exempt 75 if you must consider a 2.7

911st · 12-10-2010, 08:39 AM

Sorry if I seem dense.

So will the smog guy be looking for an air pump?

Car actually has a 77 3.0 turbo motor in it and I am wondering what will be on the smog guy's list.

Thank you for the help.

Peter Zimmermann · 12-10-2010, 09:22 AM

The '76 911 CA car was originally equipped with (1) air, aka smog, pump, (2) exhaust gas recirculation, and (3) thermal reactors. The 3.0 1977 Turbo Carrera was similarly equipped, but I would be surprised if your engine still has any of that equipment. There was no Lambda (no OXS), or catalytic converter on either engine.

Your smog guy will probably be greatly confused. If he values his license he will refer the car to a referee station, and then...who knows?

Evan Fullerton · 12-10-2010, 12:07 PM

Took me 4 smog shops to get one that would pass my Dad's '76 912E. One said No, don't know the car. The second did the test (which the car passes because it is stock minus thermal reactors) but failed it on the visual because you have to remove the smog pump to check the timing and that was not listed in his book. He referred me to a test and tune shop that basically took my word that it was timed correctly and made some BS marks that line up between the fan and fan shroud. Took it back to shop #2 and they still would not pass it on visual and wanted me to get some timing degree thing off a Bus that he though the car should have. Went to shop #4 where the Ferrari dealer takes their cars and what do you know. No questions asked the car passed with flying colors that were much better than the numbers from shop #2. I have gone back to shop #4 twice since with no issues.

ossiblue · 12-10-2010, 02:34 PM

Pete Z. has named what you should have, and the other posters are correct is saying it will be a bit of a crap-shoot as to what a particular smog tech will do. However, the smog pump is big and obvious and any tech with a semblance of knowledge will fail you on the visual if the pump is missing.

pplkook · 12-10-2010, 02:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 911st

Sorry if I seem dense.

So will the smog guy be looking for an air pump?

Car actually has a 77 3.0 turbo motor in it and I am wondering what will be on the smog guy's list.

Thank you for the help.

They will look for the equipment that would be for that car per the make/model. I assume this was an out of state car.

The only thing you can do is ensure that the 77 motor has ALL of the smog equipment for it, and then go get a special sticker via a referee. You can put another engine in your car, as long as it newer than your car and has all the right equipment.

Many have done this, so I am sure someone with all of the details will chime in. What I would do find the most respected mechanic in Sac, and get his advice.

Good luck, you may need it.

Jack

Targalid · 12-10-2010, 06:54 PM

Peter, I just bought your book and read it. I have a 76 911S that recently came from CA with all the equipment you mention that 911st doesn't have. As I am in Idaho, I want these parts mostly gone because of your warnings about overheating the engine, though right now the extra heat feels mighty good here in snow country. I have plans to remove and replace the thermal reactors with the Bursch replacements and remove the air pump and air lines. I have no idea how I am supposed to change spark plugs/adjust valves on the driver side with the air pump in the way. I did figure out how to set the dwell/point gap despite it. Should I leave the EGR pipe in place or maybe move it to the same cardboard box as the other named parts? It doesn't seem to be causing any problems and it isn't in the way right now.

ossiblue · 12-11-2010, 08:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Targalid

Peter, I just bought your book and read it. I have a 76 911S that recently came from CA with all the equipment you mention that 911st doesn't have. As I am in Idaho, I want these parts mostly gone because of your warnings about overheating the engine, though right now the extra heat feels mighty good here in snow country. I have plans to remove and replace the thermal reactors with the Bursch replacements and remove the air pump and air lines. I have no idea how I am supposed to change spark plugs/adjust valves on the driver side with the air pump in the way. I did figure out how to set the dwell/point gap despite it. Should I leave the EGR pipe in place or maybe move it to the same cardboard box as the other named parts? It doesn't seem to be causing any problems and it isn't in the way right now.

Something you might consider:

The main culprits to overheating are the thermal reactors and five blade fan. The smog pump can be removed, along with its engine compartment hoses, and you can still leave the plumbing to the exhaust ports which can be a real bear to remove. The check valve, located just below the engine tin by the pump, will keep exhaust gas from blowing back into the engine compartment and leaving the plumbing will not increase engine heat. (You might want to do a search on removing the plumbing from the exhaust head and get an idea of the PITA it is.)

Second, the erg system is relatively benign and may be left alone also, IMO. I suggest keeping the two systems mentioned because they really don't add to the overheating problem and if you ever sell the car (especially back into the Cal market) they will be needed.

Targalid · 12-11-2010, 02:39 PM

Thanks for the advice ossiblue! I appreciate it.

slategray · 12-11-2010, 06:36 PM

Evan F. I also have a 912E that have been working on and its time smog check.
The engine is stock except the reactors. Can you supply me with shop #4 name and address, I'm located in HB. Thanks.

stephers · stephers's Garage

I have a couple of smog pumps for sale if anyone needs one. You can reach me at ricks33@shaw.ca

Thanks, Rick

Grady Clay · 12-12-2010, 02:57 AM

I think there are two questions here:
What was original California equipment?
What are the current CARB requirements for an original CA car?

As corollary to the second question, are the requirements different for a 49-State version ‘imported’ into CA or a CA version, registered in another state and then reintroduced to CA?

Someone correct me, is MY1976 the first year where a CA registered car must meet all CARB requirements as originally delivered?
If that is true, what are the rules on installing a later engine (’77 Turbo or otherwise)? Do other systems have to be updated?

I’m assuming the ’76 is a very nice car and worth considering.
Anything less and I understand you should consider the CARB exempt ’74 models. I understand there is some ‘gray area’ concern about ’75 being exempt.

In looking at the ’76 CA emissions system, it needs to be in the historical perspective starting (sorta) with the ’74 model and ending (sorta) with the ’78 model. This only concerns the USA 49-state models and the CA models, not Sportomatics, not 930 Turbo, not RoW, not other countries.

In 1974 there were: 911, 911S, Carrera 2.7.
In 1975 there were: 911S, Carrera 2.7.
In 1976 there was: 911S.
In 1977 there was: 911S.
In 1978 there was the 911SC 3.0.

Important here are the engines:
In 1974 there were: 911/92 for 911, 911/93 for both 911S and Carrera (50-states).
In 1975 there were: 911/43 (49-state), 911/44 (California) for both 911S.
In 1976 there were: 911/82 (49-state) and 911/84 (California).
In 1977 there was: 911/85 (for both 49-state and California).
In 1978 there were: 930/04 (49-state) and 930/06 (California).

As you can see, one of Porsche’s ‘solutions’ to meeting emissions regulations was to offer fewer 911 models in the USA – down to only one in 1977.

It is probably easiest to compare this sequence:
The 1974 type 911/93 (50-state).
The 1975 type 911/43 (49-state) and 911/44 (California).
The 1976 type 911/82 (49-state) and 911/84 (California).
The 1977 type 911/85 (for both 49-state and California).
That is ONLY six engines.

There are two important features here: What are the year-to-year differences and what are the 49-state to California differences.

continued

Grady Clay · 04:58 AM

The 1974 type 911/93 (50-state):
Early (’66-’74) exhaust, 11- blade fan (1.3:1), no air pump, no EGR, 175 hp.

© 1973 Dr. ing. h.c.F. Porsche A.G.
(This image is actually a ’73.5 911T CIS but the exhaust is the same.)

The 1975 type 911/43 (49-state):
The 1st version 49-state exhaust, 11-blade fan (1.3:1), air injection, air pump drive ratio 1:1, air pump pulley 110 mm, no EGR, 157 hp.

© 1974 Dr. ing. h.c.F. Porsche A.G.

The 1975 type 911/44 (California):
Thermo reactor exhaust, 11-blade fan (1.3:1), air injection, EGR, 152 hp.

Grady Clay · 12-12-2010, 04:46 AM

The 1976 type 911/82 (49-state).
The 2nd version 49-state exhaust, 5-blade fan (1.8:1), air pump drive ratio 1:1, air pump pulley 113 mm, 157 hp.

© 1975 Dr. ing. h.c.F. Porsche A.G.
The exhaust difference is the 1976 version has a new (911.111.183.02) pre-muffler with a different muffler flange.

The 1976 type 911/84 (California).
Thermo reactor exhaust, 5-blade fan (1.8:1), air pump drive ratio 1.35:1, air pump pulley 138.5 mm, EGR, 157 hp.

© 1975 Dr. ing. h.c.F. Porsche A.G.
Note the larger air pump pulley.

The 1976 type 911/84 (California) is very similar to the 1975 type 911/44 (California).

The 1977 type 911/85 (for both 49-state and California).
Thermo reactor exhaust, 5-blade fan (1.8:1), air pump drive ratio 1.35:1, air pump pulley 138.5 mm, EGR, 157 hp.

The 1977 type 911/85 (for both 49-state and California) is identical (for practical purposes) to the 1976 type 911/84 (California).

Best,
Grady

Grady Clay · 05:50 AM

OUT OF SEQUENCE IMAGE
this should be at the end in post #17 but the vBulletin limits to 10 images.

The 1975 49-state and California air pump:

© 1974 Dr. ing. h.c.F. Porsche A.G.

Note the 1:1 ratio is between the fan and the drive pulley ('2' in the image) to the air pump.

EDIT
Interesting discussion about California CARB rules.
http://www.arb.ca.gov/homepage.htm

Are there published instructions for the ‘referee’?
How is he supposed to make a ruling is he can’t determine what is supposed to be there?
Can someone post a link to the information a referee uses.

Clearly, you can apply for an ‘exemption’. Some require inspection, others not:
http://www.arb.ca.gov/msprog/aftermkt/forms/forms.htm

Best,
Grady

Peter Zimmermann · 07:55 AM

I think there are two questions here:
What was original California equipment?
What are the current CARB requirements for an original CA car?

As corollary to the second question, are the requirements different for a 49-State version ‘imported’ into CA or a CA version, registered in another state and then reintroduced to CA?

1976 cars imported to CA must meet the same standards as an original CA '76.

Someone correct me, is MY1976 the first year where a CA registered car must meet all CARB requirements as originally delivered?

Yes.

If that is true, what are the rules on installing a later engine (’77 Turbo or otherwise)? Do other systems have to be updated?

The car must meet all smog requirements for the updated engine (in this case, smog pump, reactors, ex. gas recirc...), which were all fitted to a CA '77 Turbo Carrera.

I’m assuming the ’76 is a very nice car and worth considering.
Anything less and I understand you should consider the CARB exempt ’74 models. I understand there is some ‘gray area’ concern about ’75 being exempt.

'75 models are exempt in CA.

Here's a 3rd question. Why on earth would someone put a Turbo motor into a narrow body car? The boost and over steer were vicious even with the big flares, and wider track/tires. In a narrow-bodied car it's got to be borderline undriveable. 235 hp is cool, but not when it occurs all at one time like an on/off switch!