RebbAir vs.Griffiths AC

[speedster911]

Appears that a lot of you are installing the Griffiths product. Not seeing many Renn Air units discussed - WHY?

What are the + / - of each product and why did you select one vs the other.

gathering info before I purchase - Thanks

My 74 came with BEHR AC from the factory, planning on replacing condenser, evaporator, compressor etc

[Arne2]

I used RennAire products on my '84 Carrera a few years back, but went with Griffiths on my '72 just a couple months ago. Either supplier's products will do the job, but I've found the Griffiths to be a little nicer finished, slightly better fitting, and the kits are far more complete with great instructions.

The thing I liked least about the RennAire offerings were the barrier hoses. RennAire hoses are reduced diameter hoses. This makes them lighter, and slightly more flexible. But because they are smaller OD than the originals, none of the original retainers fit them correctly. Getting the hoses secured to the body properly was a real pain. The Griffiths are the larger standard size and all the original fitting hardware still works.

Hose replacement is still a pain, but on the whole the entire upgrade project went much smoother with the Griffiths parts.

After having done this twice, once with each supplier's product, if I do it again I will use Griffiths.

[dw1]

In addition to the detailed instructions and the high quality of the components, another advantage to using Griffiths is the technical support and assistance available.

Not long ago I replaced the refrigerant hoses with barrier hoses from Griffiths and rebuilt my original Nippondenso compressor with parts Griffiths supplied. The advice and "watch outs" provided to me were invaluable. Mr. Griffiths is also just a genuinely nice guy.

[GH85Carrera]

Originally Posted by dw1

In addition to the detailed instructions and the high quality of the components, another advantage to using Griffiths is the technical support and assistance available.

Not long ago I replaced the refrigerant hoses with barrier hoses from Griffiths and rebuilt my original Nippondenso compressor with parts Griffiths supplied. The advice and "watch outs" provided to me were invaluable. Mr. Griffiths is also just a genuinely nice guy.

This.

For obvious reasons I just feel better doing business with a nice, helpful, honest man. I have never dealt with any other company so I have no first hand knowledge of them or the products. I just know Charlie sells top level quality products, has great tech support, and the best instruction for any product you will ever see.

Follow his directions step by step, and and you will find yourself saying to yourself, "dang that is a great way to do that, and that looks nice" and it sure works. My system is well over a decade of hard use, and going strong.

Just Saturday I was at a car show from 7:00 AM to 3:30 PM. It was great weather in the morning but like the frog in the hot water, it was 95 degrees by 3:30. My car was in full sun most of the day, just sitting there. I sure loved cranking up the AC to max and heading home. I was hot and sweaty and the car was roasting hot when I left. Withing a mile it was blowing ice cold air on me, and it was wonderful. My 15 minute trip home was too shot to ever get me cold, but I sure was comfortable on the trip home.

[harv666]

Classic retrofit for the win....

[Tommy Z]

Glenn, Man I wish I was getting your results with my Griffith's system. Down here in SW Florida once the car gets even a decent heat soak the air coming out of the vents in my 79' SC doesn't get below 58 degrees. Did you replace your two factory condensers or are they still original?

[86 911 Targa]

Are these folks still in business?

I thought they closed their doors
a long time ago?

Gerry

[GH85Carrera]

Originally Posted by Tommy Z

Glenn, Man I wish I was getting your results with my Griffith's system. Down here in SW Florida once the car gets even a decent heat soak the air coming out of the vents in my 79' SC doesn't get below 58 degrees. Did you replace your two factory condensers or are they still original?

I drove to Key West back in 2019.



This is far south as I can get. We stopped in Key Largo for a seafood meal and my car sat in the sun for 90 minutes. Within two miles we were comfortable, and in 30 minutes I crank it back to keep from getting cold. When we stopped to look at the sights our sunglasses fogged up like a can of cold beer.

My system is now all Griffith's parts. Everything has been replaced except the front and rear condensers. I added the two fender condensers, and every other component, and I have his hurricane blower, and temp controller. It was expensive, but top quality always is. The four condensers total, in the real cure for the AC system. And pulling a solid vacuum vital. I am anal and prefer total overkill, so I pull a two hour vacuum, pressurize with dry nitrogen, then do that again. When pressurized with nitrogen I check for leaks. Then I pull a 3 hour long vacuum, and let that sit overnight. In the morning I make sure it is still holding a solid vacuum, and run the pump for 30 minutes, and then I finally charge.

On my trip back from Florida I was in Arkansas in the afternoon, mid July, 100+ degrees outside driving due west right into the afternoon sun. The suns rays were shining on my chest. I had cold air blowing on me and at one point I turned the temp UP because I was getting cold.



On a 85 to 90 degree day the return to the compressor will get frosty!

[sigchuck]

Good luck reaching RennAire - I have tried off and on for at least two years!

My car came with a Griffiths compressor, hoses, vents, and dryer, but everything else was stock. It worked fine without heat soaked car in temps below high 80s. I added an extra condenser from Zims and ceramic window coverings, which also helped, but I finally just bit bullet and ordered evaporator, evap. fan, and front and rear condensers.

I have noticed (and also heard from other members) that sealing up the passenger compartment is vital. It's counterintuitive, but my car cools much better driving around town than it does on a long road trip, probably because I'm getting so much hot air forced into the car at 85 mph than driving around town, notwithstanding the extra air blowing over the condensers. I'm sure the fact I have a targa doesn't help me either. I plan to seal the fresh air vent at the top of the hood (I added working vent windows to my SC) and add some flexible insulation panels across the rear of the frunk after I replace the evaporator.

Griffiths is expensive relative to others and shipping quotes are a bit off-putting, but his reputation for quality and customer service/tech support are well deserved.

[Mike Andrew]

I recently replaced the original switches with Griffiths units. Electrical **** baffles me but Charlie's directions were spot on and I completed the task successfully, I have his front condenser, condenser fan, rear condenser and evap blower motor. The rest of the system is Renn Aire which I installed as a complete kit years ago. I did buy all new hose clamps to accomodate the smaller hoses as mentioned above.

3 weeks ago I sent two emails to Renn Aire inquiring about a vent kit. To date, no response. When I installed the Renn Aire kit, I had a difficult time reaching Renn Aire to resolve some questions. Luckily, it was a winter project and the engine was otherwise occupied.

I have spoken with Charlie on numerous occasions with A/C questions and he has always been more than helpful. Usually end up BSing with him for a bit on other topics.

True that Griffiths systems and components are a bit more $$ but the quality and their support is worth every dime IMHO. If I were to do it again, it would be all Griffiths components.

[Tea Tray]

I installed Griffiths three years ago in my ‘87 3.2 and couldn’t be happier. During the one phone call I got a jewel of a tip. “You have a 30 year old car. Consider replacing everything the freon has touched.” A second tip was; “Read the instructions three times before you start.
I replaced the whole system working solo and added the rear condenser w/ fan. The hoses were so much fun…
I am thrilled with the whole process and gladly recommend Griffiths.
Signed:
Yes we use AC in Maine

[isby]

I recently completed installation of a complete Griffiths system - evaporator, all hoses, fender condenser, compressor, thermostat, center vent. I flushed and reused my original front and rear condensers. Overall, the instructions were excellent, and Charlie is an invaluable resource. The installation was (mostly) fun - I did have my mechanic do the system recharge, as recommended by Griffiths. I am getting 45 degrees at the vent in hot and humid S. Florida and could not be more pleased.

[Tommy Z]

I'm not sure why my Griffiths system is not performing the same way your systems are. I too replaced everything but the front and rear condensers. After a reputable Auto AC shop was tasked with the initial charge and was unable to get more that 24 OZ of refrigerant in before pressure dictated it was full, (leaving me with very unsatisfactory vent temps) I took it to another shop. This guy was even familiar with the Griffiths system. He put the system on a vacuum for a number of hours and then left it over night to make sure there were no leaks. He was able to get 32 oz's of refrigerant in before pressures dictated it was full. Griffiths says to start with 36oz but you cant argue with the gauges. Things are definitely better now but nothing like the results you guys are getting. If the car's been sitting in the garage overnight I will get vent temps in the mid 40's and it's awesome! If my drive is more than 30-40 minutes, the vent temps start to climb. In a matter of 2 minutes or so temps will go from 45 to 60 and once it hits 60 or so, it begins to drop right back down to 45-50. I know most are thinking the evaporator is freezing but this cycle of 45 to 60 and back to 45 only takes about 2 minutes in total and I don't believe the freeze and thaw would occur that fast. This cycle will repeat itself indefinitely every 7-10 minutes.

The other issue is heat soak. If the car sits in the afternoon sun to the point of heat soak it will take ten or fifteen minutes to get vents temps down to the high 50's low 60's and it never really gets better than that until the car completely cools down in the shade and sits for a few hours. All this having been said, it is certainly better than having no AC at all but it's not what I had hoped for or expected. I do have one theory and I'm wondering if perhaps there is a blockage in the system? I had instructed the first shop to flush the front and rear condensers before they started to charge it but they never did and I'm thinking that may be it. Not sure but I may have to start from scratch with the flush and re-charge. I am certainly open to suggestions if any one has any.

[GH85Carrera]

Tommy Z, how many condensers do you have? If just the two stock position ones, you need more. If you have the four condensers you likely still have some moisture in there. There are videos on-line of some water in a bell jar that then gets pulled down to a vacuum. The water boils for a little while, then turns to ice. That ice will sit there and it super slow to ever subliminate. That is why I am so anal about moisture. There is a TON of hoses in a stock system, and even more with the 4 condensers I have.



This is just the stuff I removed before putting back in the new hoses and the two new condensers way back in 2007.

Moisture and just contamination of crud is a challenge to get rid of.

If you only have two condensers, you are under condensed. Even three is not enough, go for all four. You will never have too much condenser area.

[Tommy Z]

Hi Glen, I have my 2 original condensers and then the two fender well condensers as well. I am intrigued by your comment about moisture. How can I address the extra moisture problem if the extended vacuum didn't get rid of it? I did get a new dryer as well but it believe I may have left it open overnight by accident during the install but Charlie said it was no problem. How do I get rid of the extra moisture? Thanks!

[GH85Carrera]

See my post #8 above. Vacuum, then dry nitrogen, vacuum, nitrogen again, the a overnight vacuum then charge. Change the oil on the two stage vacuum pump before that last vacuum pull as well. And use a micron gauge to see the real level of your vacuum. The gauges will read vacuum, but they can't read the last few microns of vacuum.

It is like wearing Belts, Suspenders, and Glue to keep your pants up. Maybe waste of time overkill, but you will never have too much vacuum, or too dry of a system.

[isby]

Hi Tommy - I am by no means an expert on this, but it does seem to me that you should be getting better results, especially with the 2 fender condensers (I only put in one of Charlie's fender condensers). I too am wondering if there's some sort of blockage in one or both of the original condensers. I did a very thorough flush of both condensers using compressed air and a flush gun, followed by just compressed air to get all the flushing liquid out. I will tell you that there was a fair amount of gunk in there from all the years of lord-knows-what being pumped in (sealants, etc.). If the condensers were not thoroughly flushed, it would seem plausible that a blockage may be your issue.

[Tommy Z]

Glenn, Thanks for that advice. I have had a hell of a time finding a shop cooperative enough for that level of service but I will find one and try that.

Isby, when I find a shop with the patience or time to do this for me I will definitely have both the original condensers flushed and blown out.

Thanks for the input fellas!

[Ctopher]

Originally Posted by Tommy Z

Glenn, Thanks for that advice. I have had a hell of a time finding a shop cooperative enough for that level of service but I will find one and try that.

Isby, when I find a shop with the patience or time to do this for me I will definitely have both the original condensers flushed and blown out.

Thanks for the input fellas!

And a new dryer installed. And don’t install it until the system is all closed up except the dryer. Better safe than sorry, there can be lots of moisture in the air.


CTopher

[Tommy Z]

CTopher - Roger that. Cheers!