Signs of ignition switch problems?

[Trojands]

So I tried to start my 1976 911 today and when I turn the key nothing happens past the "On" stage. Gone is the resistance that causes the engine to crank/start. Is it a mechanical failure inside my ignition switch? I though it was something electrical like a bad battery but when the key is in the "on" setting all my lights and radio turns on.

Would this be something that I would need to get as a replacement part?
https://www.pelicanparts.com/More_Info/90161301300.htm?pn=901-613-013-00-M14&gad_source=1&gclid=Cj0KCQjwgJyyBhCGARIsAK8LVLNIy9SFX9n_uN4VXPOH 3SPzcpQJmz0dmQ-3D7dAFXGdMKIP2xlcMnQaApavEALw_wcB

Or would I need to order a whole new assembly?
https://www.pelicanparts.com/More_Info/96434791701.htm?pn=964-347-917-01-M100&gad_source=1&gclid=Cj0KCQjwgJyyBhCGARIsAK8LVLOOqJlSUfx2vccQIcuz IME4FsFZWF1MJdmjhsxdX5b-J1WlVO2ADAQaAs0TEALw_wcB

[wazzz]

First link doesn't seem to fit your 76. Second link fits but you may not need to change all this.

Maybe you only need to change the switch part. Only costs 150 bucks. Look for part number 91161301701 (or equivalent new part number 96461301200).

[shamrok]

Try this first, it's free, and fixed my problem that sounds identical.

https://forums.pelicanparts.com/porsche-911-technical-forum/348306-ignition-switch-inside-fix-start-lockout.html

[Trojands]

Originally Posted by shamrok

Try this first, it's free, and fixed my problem that sounds identical.

https://forums.pelicanparts.com/porsche-911-technical-forum/348306-ignition-switch-inside-fix-start-lockout.html

Oh man not sure if I'm mechanically inclined lol. Do you think that just changing the ignition switch may work?

[shamrok]

Understood. The second link in your original post would solve what I'm talking about (tho I'm not promising that's the issue), but getting that mechanical part out of the car is probably the hardest part of the my link above. Once the switch is out, the rest is pretty trivial.

[spuggy]

You could try undoing the 2 screws that hold the electrical portion to the back of the lock assembly and dropping the electrical portion off (easy to say, but will likely take you about 30-40 minutes of cursing, even with a flexy screwdriver or a mini ratchet handle and a screwdriver bit...

But then you can leave the electrical portion connected via the harness and just try turning the center of the switch with a screwdriver - eg via the part that the lock interfaces with.

It should then be pretty obvious if there's an issue with the electrical portion or there's some mechanical problem with the lock assembly/barrel/tumblers etc.

As far as interchanging the original electrical portion 911.613.017.01 with the later replacement that superseded it, 964.613.012.00, note that the 964 electrical part has an internal interlock; once you turn it to "Start", you have to turn it all the way back to "Off" before you can move it to "Start" again - eg, if you crank long enough you want to give the starter a rest for a few seconds, you cannot just leave it at "On" and then move it to "Start" again.

I don't know when this started, but I have an electrical portion I was assured was removed from and "probably" original to an '86 930 - it also has the interlock. And certainly the 964 parts do - I bought one when they were $60 and the 911 part was $160, and never fitted it...

Both my original '77 lock assembly and an (almost certainly) earlier one I picked up, have no interlock whatsoever with the electrical portion removed - the key and the lock barrel are completely free to move round and around and around. And the electrical portion that came with the other lock also has no interlock.

However, John Walker (and others) have reported that SCs have a mechanical interlock in the lock/key assembly itself. And if that's not enough proof, there are pictures of this in the thread that shamrock posted. At least this is easily removed, if you choose or it's causing the problem moving to the "Start" position...

I suppose it's possible that both of mine had the interlock removed by a PO at some point in the distant past, I don't really know - I just presumed that the older cars don't have it in the lock assembly itself.

I can't imagine what the reasoning was for any of this, much less why 2 different ways to accomplish the same thing (surely they didn't use both?) - I've never sat in a 911 that you couldn't readily tell it was running, so why would you move the key to "Start" if it was?

I need to re-fit my old switch (it was swapped out while chasing down a "solenoid clicks" problem 15 years ago), because the interlock behavior drives me nuts sometimes, LOL...

[Trojands]

Originally Posted by spuggy

You could try undoing the 2 screws that hold the electrical portion to the back of the lock assembly and dropping the electrical portion off (easy to say, but will likely take you about 30-40 minutes of cursing, even with a flexy screwdriver or a mini ratchet handle and a screwdriver bit...

But then you can leave the electrical portion connected via the harness and just try turning the center of the switch with a screwdriver - eg via the part that the lock interfaces with.

It should then be pretty obvious if there's an issue with the electrical portion or there's some mechanical problem with the lock assembly/barrel/tumblers etc.

As far as interchanging the original electrical portion 911.613.017.01 with the later replacement that superseded it, 964.613.012.00, note that the 964 electrical part has an internal interlock; once you turn it to "Start", you have to turn it all the way back to "Off" before you can move it to "Start" again - eg, if you crank long enough you want to give the starter a rest for a few seconds, you cannot just leave it at "On" and then move it to "Start" again.

I don't know when this started, but I have an electrical portion I was assured was removed from and "probably" original to an '86 930 - it also has the interlock. And certainly the 964 parts do - I bought one when they were $60 and the 911 part was $160, and never fitted it...

Both my original '77 lock assembly and an (almost certainly) earlier one I picked up, have no interlock whatsoever with the electrical portion removed - the key and the lock barrel are completely free to move round and around and around. And the electrical portion that came with the other lock also has no interlock.

However, John Walker (and others) have reported that SCs have a mechanical interlock in the lock/key assembly itself. And if that's not enough proof, there are pictures of this in the thread that shamrock posted. At least this is easily removed, if you choose or it's causing the problem moving to the "Start" position...

I suppose it's possible that both of mine had the interlock removed by a PO at some point in the distant past, I don't really know - I just presumed that the older cars don't have it in the lock assembly itself.

I can't imagine what the reasoning was for any of this, much less why 2 different ways to accomplish the same thing (surely they didn't use both?) - I've never sat in a 911 that you couldn't readily tell it was running, so why would you move the key to "Start" if it was?

I need to re-fit my old switch (it was swapped out while chasing down a "solenoid clicks" problem 15 years ago), because the interlock behavior drives me nuts sometimes, LOL...

Thank you!! Yeah I uploaded a video to another forum and it appears that since the key doesnt shift back to its original position when I let go its most likely the electrical. Now the key is trying to figure out how Im going to access the two screws to remove it to change it out.....

[spuggy]

Originally Posted by Trojands

Thank you!! Yeah I uploaded a video to another forum and it appears that since the key doesnt shift back to its original position when I let go its most likely the electrical.

Well, it could also be the tumbler/wafers or lock mechanism messed up and in need of attention.

But the easiest way to diagnose that is probably to drop the electrical portion and see how that behaves with a screwdriver turning it.

It'll be pretty obvious which is causing the problem.

Originally Posted by Trojands

Now the key is trying to figure out how Im going to access the two screws to remove it to change it out.....

Ah, the infamous Ignition switch replacement - under dash method

Someone's who done it before can replace the electrical portion of the switch from under the dash in 10 minutes or less with a flexy screwdriver. Watched it done by a pro, to my chagrin...

For your first time, well, let's say that if you find replacing the clip on the bottom hood strut fiddly, this will not be your favorite job...

You need to not be claustrophobic, assume a zen state of mind and be prepared to tolerate 30-40 minutes of cramped discomfort and frustration working almost entirely by feel. Removing the front seat will give a lot more room - but it is still going to be uncomfortable lying in the footwell with your head on the pedals craning your head trying to see..

Don't stress overmuch about a flashlight - it's much less important that you might initially think as you pretty much can't see anything at all while you're actually doing it... A head-mounted light does help to get the tool located on the screw head - at least for the bottom one. It's quite difficult to even get eyes on the top one...

[gtc]

+1 to this

Originally Posted by spuggy

You could try undoing the 2 screws that hold the electrical portion to the back of the lock assembly and dropping the electrical portion off (easy to say, but will likely take you about 30-40 minutes of cursing, even with a flexy screwdriver or a mini ratchet handle and a screwdriver bit...

But then you can leave the electrical portion connected via the harness and just try turning the center of the switch with a screwdriver - eg via the part that the lock interfaces with.

It should then be pretty obvious if there's an issue with the electrical portion or there's some mechanical problem with the lock assembly/barrel/tumblers etc.