Would you buy this?

[sir911]

I need your help evaluating what this is worth.

I found a really clean, recently repainted (in the original color) mid-year 911. The interior is equally pristine. The car has a service record that shows it’s been well maintained. However, there’s one major issue: there is a significant oil leak from the engine. This appears to be a classic case of the 2.7’s head stud problem.

Aside from the engine, it’s a 8.5/10 car. Body and interior is 10/10. The seller is asking $40,000 for it. Would you buy a mid-year 911 that has been partially restored but, at worst, may need a complete engine rebuild, or, at best, just have the studs replaced?

I like the car and considering potentially swapping to a 3.2 engine, but I’m not sure about the pricing. Is $40,000 fair, or is it too much?

[stownsen914]

Worth considering - if it does require a major rebuild to address the leak, 2.7 engines are known to need a lot of case work to bring back to spec. A full rebuild could approach the price of the car.

Relatedly, why does the oil leak indicate a pulled stud? That’s not necessarily the first symptom of that issue. Though pulled studs are very common in that engine type. If you are seriously considering buying, it would be worth a PPI that includes an assessment of the leak and possible head stud issues.

[Dan J]

It's a bit rich but not crazy. It'll take a few years to amortize the price when the repairs are factored in So if you're in it for the long haul could be ok

[rwest]

That heat exchanger looks completely rusted out.

I noticed the clutch linkage is different than my ‘77. Not sure when they changed them. Probably a good idea to verify what engine and transmission are in it.

[blucille]

I’d be very concerned about rust. If there truly is none, I’d say 40k is reasonable.

[chucksmith]

I think you should go in to this assuming it will need a complete rebuild of the engine and price the car accordingly. We all know how much a quality rebuild is these days ,and that would put you in the 60K range assuming everything else is ok. A 3.2 or 3.6 swap may be a better way to go if you do not value originality. I would say 34-36K max for the car as it sits.

[EC900]

My significant 2.7L leak turned out to be a warped magnesium valve covers and old gaskets. Switched to 930 covers problem solved.
Head studs have to be inspected and re-torqued as needed and it’s usually during a valve adjustment so see if that was done and when.
Your photo doesn’t indicate much oil leaking from back at the TOD triangle of death. See a bit on HE, could be oil tube or cover gasket leak. How’s the rest of the bottom look? PPI definitely by someone with flat 6 knowledge.
$40k USD for clean original is a good price provided it runs and drives well.
2.7 is very durable and long lasting, if oil leaks are rectified by maintenance it could be a long time before it will need a top end…of course if you’re going to swap it upon buying the point is moot. Car looks good from the summertime photos.

[Showdown]

Until you have a proper PPI done by a shop that KNOWS Porsches, you and all of us are guessing and not all that helpful.

That said, spend some time thinking about what you want out of the car, what your future plans for it are… weekend cars and coffee car, date night car, summer toy, daily, hot rod, restoration…

Once you have a clearer idea of your use of the car then the decisions come easier; plan of building a hot rod- buy a car that needs work and is cheaper, date night car; maybe spend more on something well sorted, etc…


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Balisong]

Here is a great video to help you along with your decision.

Please do evaluate the rust condition. I’d go so far as to get a cheap bore scope camera from Amazon and look into the rockers and also in the suspension pan, but you can likely expect some rust inside the suspension pan from battery acid leaks over the years. From the smooth dash (no AC Vent and no speaker) I presume the car is a 76. If it’s a 76, there is some debate, but most say they are fully galvanized except perhaps the roof panel (depends on build date). Still all that galvanization is very good for the car and unless it lived in the rust belt, it is probably not rusty.

If it needs typical 2.7 engine sorting, that will be expensive and likely would make the car not worth $40K. At that point, I think you would be better off finding an SC that’s had the head studs checked.
If the middle year car is not rusty and just needs a few things for the engine leak, pounce on it. My 1976 is a phenomenal 911! If you live somewhere warm, pull those rusty heat exchangers off and get MK Headers and a Scart exhaust. You’ll think you own a 73 RS.

Watch this video:
https://youtu.be/-F2qUZs-tuE?si=dQlnLXcdiWkJMzH3

[ant7]

As with all 911 from this era, body work is' in my opinion the main concern, all mechanical aspects are much less of a concern to me than having to deal with crusty, rusty body panels and tub, either way, good luck with your decision.
Ant.

[Ian Comerford]

As Ant has said above my main concern would be rust as it can consume huge amounts of money to rectify. If it was restored, partially or otherwise, I would like to know by whom and also see some pictures of it being done to understand how bad it was. If the bodywork looks good then I would see this as a good contender for my money, it’s a nice colour.

[mb911]

That looks just like the one for sale locally. You can typically find nice running 3.0s for 15-20k from @mepstein and probably recoup 5-7 k for the 2.7 core. I for one like mag case engines and they don’t scare me but some get very scared by them. Valve covers, rocker shafts, triangle of death are common leaks on all 2.0-3.2 engines just an fyi

[SWS911]

Looks to be a '76 with no vent and no speaker grill dash and no lock knob on the door, The pluses I see as far as the engine goes, like Ben I too am not scared of the Mag case engines, no thermal reactors and no AC, Those were the biggest killers of the 2.7.

[MrBonus]

If you're thinking you're doing head studs, you're going to be doing machine work and at the very least resealing the entire motor if not doing "while you're in there" work, so your baseline should be 15 - 20k to make that right. Pulled head studs have a distinct sound and an oil leak isn't necessarily the primary indication.

It may be worth it to figure out exactly where and why it's leaking. Little things like the thermostat, valve cover, or oil return tube can make a big mess and are relatively easy to replace.

[Matt Monson]

Originally Posted by rwest

That heat exchanger looks completely rusted out.

I noticed the clutch linkage is different than my ‘77. Not sure when they changed them. Probably a good idea to verify what engine and transmission are in it.

That throw out arm is correct. Omega springs are later.

I think $40k sounds fair, if, as Dan said, you’re buying the car to own it. If you’re an investment buyer, pass.

[sir911]

I’m always impressed by the wealth of knowledge here and support of the community. Thanks for the feedback, everyone.

It’s a 1976 and the car is being sold by a local classic car dealership. I’ll inspect for rust in the areas Balisong mentioned but I will also try and get a PPI done.

I’m in this for the long haul and okay with investing time and effort into making the car right.

The engine is leaking oil from the base of the cylinder head where it meets the case and the seller suspects it’s because of a pulled head or stud. The engine isn’t making any weird noise though and the car drives okay, so maybe the issue isn’t too bad and retorquing the head studs could help fix it.

Balisong - the Williams Crawford video is one of the reasons i’m considering this over a more expensive (and rough) SC for sale. I’ll replace the heat exchangers if I get this so thanks for the recommendation.

[brighton911]

sir911 Jeff Alton has a shop in Langley, he knows these cars very well. I would get him to evaluate it. https://turn3autosport.com/contact-us/

[MrBonus]

Originally Posted by sir911

I’m always impressed by the wealth of knowledge here and support of the community. Thanks for the feedback, everyone.

It’s a 1976 and the car is being sold by a local classic car dealership. I’ll inspect for rust in the areas Balisong mentioned but I will also try and get a PPI done.

I’m in this for the long haul and okay with investing time and effort into making the car right.

The engine is leaking oil from the base of the cylinder head where it meets the case and the seller suspects it’s because of a pulled head or stud. The engine isn’t making any weird noise though and the car drives okay, so maybe the issue isn’t too bad and retorquing the head studs could help fix it.

Balisong - the Williams Crawford video is one of the reasons i’m considering this over a more expensive (and rough) SC for sale. I’ll replace the heat exchangers if I get this so thanks for the recommendation.

Some will retorque head studs and it will slow leaks and hold for years. Others will find it causes them to pull right out of the block and causes the issue to get worse in a few thousand miles. You can always have the inspecting shop simply check the torque on them which will tell you a lot about what sort of out of pocket costs you'll be expecting in the near term. Magnesium will slowly shift and warp over time as it heat cycles, which is why they all eventually weep or leak.

My 2.7 is out of a '77 and I was convinced my head studs were bad too but they held good torque and required no meaningful adjustment. It turns out my thermostat was causing oil to roll down the block, one of my cam chain tensioner lines had a small leak as well as the rear main seal, but the combination of oil coming from all angles made it look like a more expensive problem than it really was. All of those have been fixed and now there are a few drops here and there (some down the case seam) but I have zero intention of cracking the engine open over it.

[Dpmulvan]

I wouldn’t buy a car from a classic car dealership but that’s just me. Often it’s lipstick on a pig to make some profit.

[A930Rocket]

Originally Posted by Dpmulvan

I wouldn’t buy a car from a classic car dealership but that’s just me. Often it’s lipstick on a pig to make some profit.

Buying a freshly painted car is a turn off for me. They can hide all kinds of sins.