Backdating a 993?

[blue72s]

As some of you know, the 993 chassis is without doubt the best of the aircooled 911’s because of its multi-link rear suspension plus 20% stiffer body in torsional rigidity. So I wonder if backdating a 993 to pre-73 narrow body (including motor and tranny etc) is feasible?


TIA

[JMar]

Why on earth would you want to ruin the car like that?

[Az911]

Originally posted by blue72s
As some of you know, the 993 chassis is without doubt the best of the aircooled 911’s because of its multi-link rear suspension plus 20% stiffer body in torsional rigidity. So I wonder if backdating a 993 to pre-73 narrow body (including motor and tranny etc) is feasible?


TIA

Sure if you have enough money anything can be done.

The real question is why in the would would you want to backdate the motor and tranny?

[TRE Cup]

It would be a major undertaking- far better to buy a decent 73 car and weld in the rear 993 suspension (yes, its been done). You will have to flare the back to RSR spec (and hence do the front too) unless you get some serious negative offset rims. which of course, make it look funny.
The front can be modified to work well with the back

[blue72s]

thanks for the info. Regards

[Wil Ferch]

Don't be so quick to criticize his intentions....

There is a lot of interest in backdating the "looks" of a 74-89 car to the early long hood designs...( and this *has* been done)..

So...it's quite natural to expand this question to the 993 line.

Hey, Blue72S...I'm with 'ya man !!

---Wil

[masraum]

Seems like a decent idea or at least a natural progression as Wil said, but backdating the drivetrain seems a little weird.

But I'm sure someone would take that horrible new motor off of your hands cheap if you did!!

[slater]

I have been staring at a picture of a 993 for a few minutes now, and geez that seems like a tough project! Especially the front end. The back end wouldn't be too bad, and I would like to see one with some fuchs on it just for fun.

[Wil Ferch]

Oopsy...didn't notice the reference to backdate the drivetrain...

Hey....what'ya nuts or somethin' ????

---Wil

[juanbenae]

what will said

[KobaltBlau]

backdating is a big waste of time and $:

buy the look you want and spend your money on suspension, then maybe power.

I personally like everything from SWB to 993 just fine. no body mods for me unless it's to fit bigger wheels/tires.

Within the whole air-cooled 911 line, the chassis is not that big of a deal. If you can't find someone in an original chassis 911 (65-89) that is faster than you are, you're pretty damn fast. Sure, there are classes out there for the new cars, but very few of us are racing in classes where the original chassis cannot be competitive.

[304065]

Such a backdate would probably land you in the "prototype" classes anyway, not where you want to be unless you are prepared to 935 it.

[nostatic]

is the multilink rear suspension that much better? Why not just add coilovers if you want to get tricky?

[masraum]

I was thinking that the front end would be easy, but the back end would be tough. For most of the front end it's a bolt on affair except for the header for the hood latch, but aren't the curves on the back of the 993 completely different than the curves of the earlier cars? Seems besides the rear bumper area surgery you'd have to do a lot of cutting and welding for the rear. Not arguing, just thinking outloud

[Bill Verburg]

Within the whole air-cooled 911 line, the chassis is not that big of a deal.

You obviously haven't driven a well set up 964, a properly setup 993 is another step up. Either is a huge improvement over th 911. Get them down to 2500# and a 911 won't be able to touch them.

As it is in PCA D stock where the '72-73 2.7 Carrera-Lt. Wgt runs at 2116#, and '95 993 runs at 3064# and All 911 (US Carrera Cup, street conversion) at 2760#. The 911 will keep up on the straights but gets killed under braking and in the turns.

[304065]

I wonder how much of the move of the 964 from F to E was the suspension and how much was Oliver. . .

[Bill Verburg]

I hear Ollie's going to do the historics at the Glen, he'll be in A, could be interesting

[KobaltBlau]

My mistake Bill, I overstepped my experience. When someone is considering backdating a body, they are probably not planning on racing, so I guess my mind-set was street and DE, where of course the newer cars would still have better performance, but for most of us the driver is more important.

Originally posted by Bill Verburg
As it is in PCA D stock where the '72-73 2.7 Carrera-Lt. Wgt runs at 2116#, and '95 993 runs at 3064# and All 911 (US Carrera Cup, street conversion) at 2760#. The 911 will keep up on the straights but gets killed under braking and in the turns.

so you're saying '95 993s at 3064# are killing the RSL replicas at 2116 lb in the corners? wow.

Originally posted by Bill Verburg
You obviously haven't driven a well set up 964, a properly setup 993 is another step up. Either is a huge improvement over th 911. Get them down to 2500# and a 911 won't be able to touch them.

Please enlighten me: what characteristics change, and why? Such as, how do the innovations incorporated in the later suspensions improve performance and/or feel? I realize that a multi-link setup reduces camber variations substantially compared to a semi-trailing arm, but beyond that...

Thank you,

[Bill Verburg]

Don't minimise the effects of favorable camber patterns. The 993 works like a double wishbone suspension. Enabling the tires to work more effectively than on a 911.

The 911RS is steered w/ the throttle as much as the wheel. It is more jittery and alive and that is why many(including myself consider them to be fun)

The 993RS is more planted, more solid. It doesn't feel as fast but it is faster.

Under braking there is no comparison, the 911RS/LW is adequate, the 993RS is omigod(lap after lap), partially due to rubber of course.

The 964RS is just in between these 2 extremes.

[Jack Olsen]

Originally posted by KobaltBlau
Please enlighten me: what characteristics change, and why? Such as, how do the innovations incorporated in the later suspensions improve performance and/or feel? I realize that a multi-link setup reduces camber variations substantially compared to a semi-trailing arm, but beyond that...

What else is there?

I considered a 993 rear end for my car, and would have done it, if it were manageable, from a budget or time perspective. But I only had 12 weeks, so I passed.

But everything I've heard is that it's the best way to go for a rear end.

That, and an ERP 935-style front suspension is pretty much the top-of-the-line-deluxe setup for a pre-89 car.

I couldn't afford the ERP front end, either.