High Compression Pistons or Performance Chips

[Wavey]

Originally posted by Lorenfb
If no real contributions occur, it's probably time to close the thread!

Actually, it's time to respond to the challenge. Provide proof or admit you're wrong.

[Joeaksa]

Originally posted by Lorenfb
"Do not have any idea how many years Loren needs to see before he feels that the chip "just might" be ok for the engine."

- Joeaska -

Typical! Can't you do any better than the typical post? Why not provide an intelligent post and contribute to the discussion and not just jump on the "bandwagon"? It sounds as if you're a shop owner or maybe just another "conduit" to promote and sell chips & one with little knowledge of engines as is the case for DW SD.

If no real contributions occur, it's probably time to close the thread!

Considering that you will not explain yourself, you are correct, there are no new contributions to the post!

Attacking the messenger and not the message is what got you in this hot water in the first place. Shop owner? I fly airplanes for a living, so doubt that there is any conflict if interest here.

This is what you call the "typical" post because everyone wants to know why you have gone so wacko on this, and for no apparent reason. You continue to not answer the question and try to ignore everyone else. You feel that you are the only one in the right and everyone else is wrong and against you for some reason.

Whine a bit more and try for more sympathy, but its only going to hurt your reputation.

Joe A

[Wil Ferch]

Although I don't condone nor particularly endorse Loren's abrasive style....I'll bet that in his own charming way...all he's trying to do is enlighten some of us to pitfalls such as :

1.) how do you know what you "don't know" ? ( aka...sub-audible detonation or pre-ignition), without measuring tools or prototype test results?, i.e. .....how can you quantify the "danger zone"? Especially true since this is a moving target with engine load, rpm, ambient temps, etc....all being factors. ( the counter-point, of course, is that Porsche would not market their unit right "to" the ragged-edge of reliability. There has to be some "room" for mods that tuners and their customers have always willingly accepted as a risk. Question is ..how much is reasonable and understandable?).
2.) why do we show understanding ( and therefore concern) for overly high CR vs keeping single plugs...yet we don't grasp ( or want to grasp) the relatively similar effects of aggresive chipping ???

This is beyond tech issues and begins to touch on the human psyche and emotions too. The fact is that a chip is a relatively inexpensive mod to make...and the ease with which this can be done can lead to a false sense of security. Especially if you don't have a clear understanding of the chip tuner's design philosophy. Conversely, twin plug mods, especially when done in conjunction with a major engine re-build...is lotsa $$$...and those posters will be *very leery* of any unwanted destructive effects on their precious motors. They've typically been "sensitized" on this issue a bit more.

Of course...I'm not a psychiatrist, but it helps to be one to post on this topic (... I only play one on TV.....)

- Wil

[TRE Cup]

Here is my contribution
Loren provides TRE with excellent service on repairing various electronic components for many years. We will most certainly continue to do so.

Do we disagree with him on the chips issue? oh yes! as witnessed by several years of selling/installing working with Steve Wong and his chips. We are very happy with Steve and his attention to detail. Whenever we need some custom tweaking he is eager to work with us to get it right.

so see people, we can agree to disagree w/o name calling or worse. I respect both parties and take Loren's discussions in stride
Thank you

[Lorenfb]

"The fact is that a chip is a relatively inexpensive mod to make...and the ease with which this can be done can lead to a false sense of security."

- Wil Ferch -

Well put! That kinda sums it up.

[JeremyD]

While I defend Loren's right to free speech and convey his opinion, I'm growing tiresome of him quoting others out of context and his failure to come up with anything tangible that supports his claims.

[Wil Ferch]

Well....I'm quoted out of context again....

.....but friendly .... we're making progess on both sides !!

- Wil

[Wavey]

No, this sums it up: You can not provide proof of your allegations because there isn't any.

[sammyg2]

quote: "Loren provides TRE with excellent service on repairing various electronic components for many years. We will most certainly continue to do so." end quote.

Bummer. After several years I have finally discovered something negative about TRE. It's a shame, too.

[Joeaksa]

Originally posted by TRE Cup
Here is my contribution. Loren provides TRE with excellent service on repairing various electronic components for many years. We will most certainly continue to do so.

Do we disagree with him on the chips issue? oh yes! as witnessed by several years of selling/installing working with Steve Wong and his chips. We are very happy with Steve and his attention to detail. Whenever we need some custom tweaking he is eager to work with us to get it right.

so see people, we can agree to disagree w/o name calling or worse. I respect both parties and take Loren's discussions in stride Thank you

This is what gets me! We keep hearing that Loren is excellent in working with the components that he builds and repairs, with very good feedback from most everyone.

Then out of the blue he gets on Pelican and says things that cannot be backed up and makes people really look at him and ask "what in the world is going on with him"....

Loren, please either prove your points or stop slinging them around. Without proof they are doing nothing but hurting you and your reputation.

JA

[livi]

I actually think these threads are both entertaining and very educational. Loren´s somewhat provocative statements always brings out a variety of skilled lessons.

Its a veritable "smorgasbord" for a rookie! Keep the pedagogic arguments coming.

[JeremyD]

At one point I thought Steve Wong and Loren were the same person. The skeptic that I am thought what a novel marketing plan. Disparage and challenge Steve Wong and you get 50 random people that post how they are happy with the product and would highly recommend. What better product endorsement is there?

[DW SD]

Loren,
I respect your work and knowledge, but not the way that express yourself. I am amazed at the conclusions you draw about what I know and don't know. You wrote: "one with little knowledge of engines as is the case for DW SD." I hope you don't draw your technical conclusions in the same fashion.

I never once attacked you, and attempted to respectfully ask of your motivation and interest in saving people from themselves?

Hope I didn't offend you, that was not my point.

At the end of the day, do you really give a $hit if someone blows their motor because they made a bad decision trying to eek out a bit more power?
My guess is you don't.

Again, I respectfully ask: why do you care?

Doug

[Steve W]

As a casual observer of all these chip posts, it usually amuses me how Loren gets his panties all bunched up over the topic. I usually try to stay out of these type of discussions because my very busy schedule limits me from posting and responding appropriately. As usual because it is my chips and posts that are usually the target of his attacks, it believe it is only fair for Loren to provide full disclosure of his relation into the chip industry.

Lorenfb owner of System SC, alternator rebuilder and repairer of automotive electronics has also sells performance chips, and has been doing so for quite a few years now. There are a few of us on this board who know of this, but I will not bring up any names for now. PM me if you want to know. However if anyone of you are interested in purchasing one of Loren's chips for your Porsche, may I suggest you start by contacting one of his shop customers, such as Valley European in Van Nuys, CA. (818) 787-7187. Fred there would be more than happy to assist you. Warning though, do not call me if you suffer engine problems. Best of luck.

[Wavey]

priceless...

[livi]

I am sure Loren is willing to put this last paradox into perspective..

[88-diamondblue]

Priceless is right...

[sammyg2]

Hmmm, so it would appear that all of Loren's name calling and bad-mouthing are not just an attempt to keep us from destroying our engines, instead his motivation would appear to be pure greed in the form of trying to keep us from buying a product from his direct competitor. Naw, it couldn't be that simple (deja vu, this was suggested two days ago on this board but the true facts were not available then so it was just a hunch at the time).
Shame on you Loren.

[Joeaksa]

Originally posted by Wavey priceless...

Loren, Now we see the light! Why didnt you tell us the whole story a long time ago?

Talk about a "loss of face thread"... well, this one just did it for you. You could have said nothing and life would have been a lot better for you but instead now the whole Pelican community sees the truth for a change.

Loren, why are you so quiet? Please tell us that this is not true and that once again SW is together with the evil empire?

JA

[Lorenfb]

"Lorenfb, owner of System SC, alternator rebuilder and repairer of automotive electronics has also sells performance chips, and has been doing so for quite a few years now."

Totally false! Check here ( www.systemsc.com) for company products.
Furthermore, how could any company be in the business of selling performance
chips when their web site only has negative comments about performance chips?
My relationship with performance chips is to solve problems the result of them
and expose those that B.S. on the forum as exemplified here:

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/showthread.php?threadid=260223

"The key to the success or failure in replacing the stock AFM with any MAF or HFM sensor, is the quality of the specially written chip software, and integrated electronics of the system. Just wiring any MAF or HFM sensor into the Bosch AFM wiring will result in immediate disappointment, as the output voltage and flow curves in no way resemble the stock flow meter.

The system is a product of two years of research and development. A specially developed analog to digital circuit was designed to convert the HFM5 signal into one the Bosch DME can process. The circuitry is contained in a separate aluminum enclosure not pictured that resides inside the airbox housing. In addition a separate barometric sensor was implemented to compensate for adjustments due to changes in altitude and atmospheric pressure. Also important is the implementation of an intake air temp sensor which is used by the software to ensure maximum performance in cool ambient temperatures, yet variably trim back the ignition tables as temperatures rise, providing anti knock protection in hot weather, a key function that was missing in other MAF systems.

The specially developed and programmed chip that is required is included in the system. The stock chip, or any other performance chip will not work with the setup. The system performs flawlessly, cold start, idle, decal, part throttle, and full throttle performance is fantastic.

We intend on having detailed dyno results available soon. Cars will be dyno tuned and optimized for the maximum performance attainable with just a chip alone while retaining the stock AFM sensor. As Ralph indicated, his will be one of them. We will then swap out the AFM sensor with the HFM system and redyno. The results will ultimately determine how restrictive the stock AFM is, and how much more power is attainable by eliminating it. Eventually a 964 system will also be available, as the 964s use the exact AFM sensor as the 3.2s. Stay tuned."

- Steve W -

Total B.S.!

And, TRE who?

No real contributions which address the issues technically other than Wil Ferch's.
It's a credit to him, and to the other's, well.