Experience Selling Porsche on EBAY?

[clnilsen]

Have you sold a Porsche via EBAY? What was your expereince? It seems like there are a lot of auctions that close, but how many of these transactions "complete"?

Some background: I decided a few months back to sell my 1980, and have used several venues to try and sell it, inlcuding Pelican (http://forums.pelicanparts.com/showthread.php?threadid=262715) I have always represented the car as a nice driver, with a few updates, and I've had a few of my local Porsche car freinds who know the car double check me to make sure I wasn't over-representing anything.

I have sold many classic cars in the past, usually via Hemmings or Autotrader, and this car has been about the worst experience I've ever had. I know I tend to be a over-accommodating seller, inc with each one of these buyers I have been very flexible in negotiating a price to make the deals work for them, but with this car I feel like I have been keel-hauled.

I've had the following in the last few months:

1) Guy tell me he wants the car, we agree on a deal and verbally approve a deal and is sending money. 5 days later after trying to find out whats going on I get a call "sorry to mislead you but I bought another car, I just wanted to keep you as a back up"

2) Guy decided not to buy the car after much e-mailing and picture taking at his request saying my car had to be in poor condition because " it had too few miles and Porsche engines fail if they don't have more miles"

3) Guy signed a contract (!) to buy the car, I deliver it (while retaining title, pending reciept of check), then drop it back off in my driveway (w/o keys!) because his wife said no. I considered enforcing this one, but decided it would be too much of a mess to deal with.

And the grand-daddy...
4) Guy wants to buy the car, requests a PPI from local PCA recommended shop of his choice. We accomodated it and got it up there, only to have the shop alledge that the car had been repainted because "Porsche never sold targas with black targa bars and the "targa" in silver..... the only ever came from the factory in brushed stainless!"

I am quite frankly sick of dealing with people on this car, and woudl like to move it. I keep considering EBAY, but they want a pretty penny to list a car, and if trnasactions never complete it seems liek it would be a waste of money. Thoughts?

[wholberg]

My feelings on your experiences are:

1) Jerk!
2) Idiot
3) Spineless Jerk!
4) Be glad you don't take you car there!

I tracked Porsche sale prices on EBay for several months before I bought one on EBay. I have also sold two non-porsche cars on EBay.

Regarding prices: EBay has become the lowest common denominator for price. Unless you get VERY lucky, you will sell the car for the low current market value, and you may need to list it several times to sell, although relisting is free. On the plus side, I advertised my two vehicles locally with little success, but as soon as they were on EBay, I had over a dozen locals come over to look at them, so EBay was better advertisement than the newspaper. You might have a better chance of selling them locally once listed.

As for selling, the first vehicle went for my buy-it-now price before the auction was over and there were no problems with the transaction. The buyer of the second vehicle was a #3, above, but I offered it at the winning bid to the next lowest bidder, and they took it. No problems with that transaction either. Both buyers paid with PayPal.

As spring approaches, I think you will find a better market. IMO EBay will be better advertisement than anything you have tried, but it is unlikely you will get $18K for it. A year ago when I was watching prices, the average SC went for $10-14K. I have not been watching them recently, but someone else might chime in.

Your other alternative is to put it up on consignment at a local car lot. Good Luck.

[blucille]

as one of the four, I cannot figure out which one I was...must be number four....but certainly not the way the story went down.

whatever the case, I highly recommend ebay for a car like this, since the audience is huge and the fair market value of the car should be realized. Listing fees are typically quite low, but go up as you add things like reserves and buy it now's...and want many photos to show the car.

I think anyone who has bought or sold a car car relate to the above story. Truth be told, I had just gone thru this process myself, selling off a 1966 230sl to a fellow in Scotland, much deliberation (he's an attorney) he had a PPI done, and purschased the car even tho it had its flaws.

I was willing to do the same with the above 1980 SC targa, but the list of flaws was significant. I trust the folks who do the PPI's, and I have purchased cars that came back with a list of items, only if the PPI-er said "this is a car to buy"...this was the case on our 1969 911S, and this was the case with the benz I just sold. However on the above car I was told to "run away from this one"

Seems a price and attitude adjustment are in order.

-Lewis

[rcooled]

Try listing your car on craigslist (craigslist.com). It's free, you can post photos and the ads are kept current. I bought my '89 Targa thru them and have sold vehicles there as well.

[clnilsen]

Originally posted by sonett43
as one of the four, I cannot figure out which one I was...must be number four....but certainly not the way the story went down.

Seems a price and attitude adjustment are in order.

-Lewis

Well, I question whether I should respond here, but I will since you brought it up. To be honest, after talking to the Shop *I* probably woudn't have bought *my* car either from me. So no hard feelings towrds you except personal frustration at blantent mis-representation by the shop.

I went and talked to the shop guy yesterday picking up the car, and quite frankly I am not really sure how he even could have held himself as an expert. The whole targa bar thing was such a ludacris statement that I just gave up even trying to talk to him. he also mentioned dirt in the paint and overspray. I think he was a bit suprised when my wife wiped off the wax off the black trim with her finger.

One other item he mentioned was worn 1st gear synchros. He stated " I could only get the car in 1st gear 1 out of every 10 times". Now this is an occasional driver 45k miles car. it's been well cared for, never even been within 5 miles of a autocross or racetrack. My WIFE was able to hop in the car from the cold and drive up without any shifting issues.

WHILE IN THE CAR TALKING TO HIM in the parking lot rolling... I shifted it in 4 times in a row. Now, I have never said that it shifted like a new BMW, but I doubt it did new. I asked him "are the syncho's abnormally worn out for a 45k mi car OR do they need replaced shortly?" The only reply.. "well... no."

've never held the car out as a show car. The car has RS door panels, which I have aquired an orginal set if someone were desired to put it back to original. I The pictures posted and my comments clearly indicate that I have cleaned up the interior, but nothing that couldn't be reversed very easily. I actually figured it out... to go back to stock would be about 300$ (200$ for new SC door panels, $85 to have North hollywood remove said gauge faces and re-calibrate back to 85 mph speedo, and 15$ for misc items like crus sleeve for shift knob.) probably add in a good 4 hours of work, and it would be completely stock. I already switched from the 930S steering wheel back to the stock wheel, altho I did it in such a hurry that I need to re-align it so it's straight with the wheels.

The key here is the parting quote from the shop is "Well to a Porsche Purist, the car is worthless." I believe that he said the car was "crap" as well. The car is not a 100point show car. it's not priced as a 100pt show car. I've HAD trailer queens, and I've never held this out to be one. I get frustrated though when other make absolutist judgements based on that standard. If someone wants a trailer queen thats fine, but please do a bit of diligence, look at the pictures, and understand what you are buying before you make people jump through hoops.

Again, I've tried to use a few people who have seen the car to double check me to make sure i was being fair an honest. Having bought cars remotely before, I know what it's like to get suprises.

I think the only attitude adjustment is for the shop (you'll notice I don't mentiont he shop's name out of fairness, just like I never mentioned any specifics about the potential buyers). I don't really know what his deal was, and am glad that I've never used him for service. I have been actually fairly open in my negotations price wise, and have really been open to offers. I even have since gone back and price checked several other sources, including a PCA judge, and I still feel that I am in the range (with a little bit of negotiating room).

Again, wish everyone luck. To be honest, this expereince has gotten me to the point of never wanting to deal w/ the car hoppy again. It seems to me that we are going the way of sports cards and comic books. If it's not a gem mint 10, graded by some rating agency, it's worthless. Just expressing frustation.

[jluetjen]

An important point is to be sure to list the car's condition fairly if you're listing on ebay (or anywhere else for that matter). From a sales perspective it's always better to pleasently surprise your potential buyer with the condition rather then have them show up and be let down with what they see.

The trick with ebay is to get a couple of people bidding. The competitive nature of the process will take over from there. I see a lot of auctions where people try to bend the process to their benefit, with the result that all they do is scare off bidders. A few tricks that I've found to work based on personal eBay selling experience (as well as a few master's level "Competitive Decision Making (aka: Gaming)" courses).

1) Do Cross list the item. So put it on ebay and then list it in Pelican and other sites with links to the ebay listing. If people contact you from the Pelican listing, tell them to place a bid! (see below) The objective is to generate traffic on the auction listing.

2) Don't allow people to convice you to make a deal outside ebay. I know that this is contrary to conventional wisdom. But by doing this you just short circuit the competitive bidding process which is what you want to drive the price up. If you leave yourself the out of "Ending the auction early because it's listed locally", you'll scare off bidders. Basically you'll just be leaving money on the table.

3) Don't use a reserve unless you absolutely have to. Until a reserve has cleared, it scares off bidders because so many people list auctions with unreasonable reserves. Why bother bidding (a legal commitment BTW) if the seller isn't serious???

4) Do set a reasonable starting price. In order to avoid using a reserve, set the starting price to your "walk away" price. If people don't want to pay that, then they won't bid and there's no deal. If you're "walk away" price is unclear, try starting the bidding at 70%0-80% of what you think that the car is worth. The objective is to get people to place a bid because they think that they can get a deal. Once 2 or more people are bidding against each other, the red mist takes over you and wind up with $33K 911T's of dubious provinance.

Finally...
Do be fair. People can smell a creep from a mile way!

[techweenie]

Keep in mind that people bidding from a distance will usually not come to see the car and will hold back 10-15% of what they might be willing to pay against over-representation or problems that are not revealed or known by the seller.

I don't want to start a flame war here, but Targas and cabs are over-represented on eBay because they are harder to sell locally than coupes. The volume of these cars (and the poor condition of many 'dumped' on the 'Bay) weakens the Targa & cab bidding there.

[RPMClassic]

If you'd like to send me a copy of a pre-wriiten ad with any info appropriate, I will be happy to put it into circulation in my area. Targa's are always popular here and don't have to be in perfect condition to be enjoyed. Its a shame that people have put you on a goose chase, owning a Porsche is supposed to be a fun experience and not a hassle.

Send it along to heimbachracing@yahoo.com - I will post it at work and some of the local shops in my area.

TGIF -

Jim