(Pic) How adjustable are our front ends?

[Gunter]

No info is better than bad info.
Danny:
Measuring fender lip height is a very rough estimate and requires the car to be on level ground.
Do it right, according to the Manuals.
If the retaining caps on the T-bars don't sit in roughly the same position, something is not right with the set-up and the alignment and corner balance has to be checked.
If the tub is twisted, fender height means nothing.
Fender height is no assurance of corner balance.
If you are not sure about your alignment and corner balance, have it done.
It makes a big difference.
If your car has been corner balanced recently, raising the front will not affect balance as long as you turn the adjustment screws on both sides equally,

One more thing:
If your car is on the ground and you are turning the adjustment screw against the weight of the car, the force on both should feel the same.
If on side feels lighter, it means either the car is not on level ground, or is not corner balanced, or both.

[the]

Fender height is a relative starting point.

Ex. if it is at 24 now and you want to raise the car half an inch, adjust until both sides are at 24.5.

Now you have raised both sides equally.

Corner balance? Yeah, that's nice to have. I'd estimate that the odds that your car has been cornerbalanced is about 1%. It's rarely done on a street car. And yeah, if your car is cornerbalanced, the second you turn that first screw any amount, your cornerbalance is shot.

If your goal is to just raise the front end of the car 1/2 an inch, you don't need to make it so complicated. Just raise it 1/2 inch equally on both sides.

[ZOA NOM]

I normally adjust this with the car on the ground. I place two squares of thin sheet metal with grease between them under each front tire. This allows the tire to "slide" with the adjustment. When you raise it, it will affect toe slightly in proportion to the amount of adjustment. 1/2" will probably not require much adjustment to any other alignment settings.

[Danny_Ocean]

Well...y'all are on the money. Two full turns clockwise and raised the (fender lip) height 1/2"...start: 24 1/4" end: 24 3/4"

Thanks!

[widgeon13]

Did you make the adjustments with the car on the ground or on jack stands? Weight on or off the wheels? Thanks

[Danny_Ocean]

I had pulled the wheels to do some maintenance...painted the struts, calipers, cleaned the brake dust from the inside of the wheels, installed new "long" lug-nuts...

My car is so low, there's not enough room to stick your arm underneath. Oddly, though, with the wheels off the ground, the passenger side bolt was easy to turn while the driver's side was difficult...?

[Gunter]

Originally posted by Danny_Ocean
Well...y'all are on the money. Two full turns clockwise and raised the (fender lip) height 1/2"...start: 24 1/4" end: 24 3/4"

Thanks!

Danny:
The adjuster screws may be rusted, use some penetrating oil.
I would be very interested in seeing pictures of both adjuster-positions.


Also: Do you have the "bump steer kit" installed meaning:
12mm (1/2") round spacers under the steering rack?
One on each side.
It reduces bump steer; nice to have.

[the]

Originally posted by Danny_Ocean
Well...y'all are on the money. Two full turns clockwise and raised the (fender lip) height 1/2"...start: 24 1/4" end: 24 3/4"

Thanks!

Congrats. Glad all the useless "bad info" turned out helpful for you.

Originally posted by Danny_Ocean
Oddly, though, with the wheels off the ground, the passenger side bolt was easy to turn while the driver's side was difficult...?

Yup, my car is the same. These are old cars.

[Danny_Ocean]

Originally posted by Gunter
Danny:
The adjuster screws may be rusted, use some penetrating oil.
I would be very interested in seeing pictures of both adjuster-positions.


Also: Do you have the "bump steer kit" installed meaning:
12mm (1/2") round spacers under the steering rack?
One on each side.
It reduces bump steer; nice to have.

I soaked with AeroKroil 1/2 hr. before attempting adjustment. It seems the one side had more tension on it. Before wrenching, I observed the adjusters were cranked as low as they could go while still remaining in contact with the torsion bar.

No bump-steer kit, yet. Previous owner did a lot of stuff for "looks" but not for "go" or handling. I'm correcting all that now.

[RarlyL8]

After seeing this thread I thought I would lower my front end 1/4" just for looks. Did everything as suggested but ran into a snag. My adjustment bolts are already screwed all the way out, meaning the car is as low as it can go. The bolts are at a really bad angle against the T-Bar end cap stop button thingy. The end cap needs to be re-indexed but will not budge.

How do you get the T-Bar cap off?

Also - my drivers side adjustment bolt was much harder to turn than the passengers side with no weight on the wheels. I'd say rust is the culprit.

[JP911]

Brian-
Get the front end up in the air to remove tension from the adjustment cap, remove the adjustment screw/bolt completely, and the cap should come off with a little bit of effort.

[911pcars]

"My car is so low, there's not enough room to stick your arm underneath. "

Roll the front wheels over a couple of 2x12s or equivalent on each side. With this setup, even Popeye should be able to slide his brachioradialis under your car. After each adjustment roll the car and settle the suspension (unless you use slip plates), then recheck the ride height. Repeat until it's at the desired height.

Sherwood

[RarlyL8]

Jon - I did that, they won't budge.

[JP911]

Hmmmm...try a small pry bar on the cap, or you could remove the covers and end caps on the front of the a-arms and tap the T-bars forward to release them.

[Gunter]

Originally posted by RarlyL8
Jon - I did that, they won't budge.

Are you lowering past the sanity level?
Tension, or rust is holding the caps on.
Look at page 401-10 in the Bentley, the cap comes off with some prying and tapping unless there is still some tension exerted on the T-bar end-cap. Push down on the A-arm to release tension and get the cap off.
Mark the ends of the T-bars if they don't have markings; they need to go back in in the same direction.
Pull the T-bars right out and inspect them, sometimes they need to be repainted. There is a left and right.
If they are good, grease the splines and put them back in.
Re-index the cap one spline, grease and re-assemble, oil the adjustment screw, (You may have to play with the A-arm up or down to get the screw in)
Adjust the screw so the tongue of the cap sits in the center.
Set the car on its wheels. Happy with the height?
If not, now you can just turn the adjustment screws ccw to lower some more. What fender height are you aiming for?

Of course, with all this lowering for more bling, there is no zing in the performance.

Even with the bump-steer spacers, the handling is *****ty, the tires wear on the inside edge, you'll need another alignment and corner balance, and most likely, you'll bottom out the front struts during hard cornering.

So much for bling. Why do it?

[RarlyL8]

Lowering the car 1/4" should not cause all those problems. It sits at Euro hieght right now, the alignment is perfect and the tires wear evenly.
What I want to do is re-index the caps so that the screws are about 1/2 way in and sitting at a correct angle (none) to the bump stop. Right now they are screwed out all the way and at a sever angle with the stop. The alignment shop must have done that years ago when the car was first put together. I have never messed with the ride hieght until now. The taller wheels and tires have exposed a 1/4" gap in the front that was not noticable before. I know it's hard to believe but some of us do not regularly track our 911s and like for them to look good.

[Danny_Ocean]

Originally posted by Gunter
So much for bling. Why do it?

[Gunter]

Brian:
Did you get the caps off as suggested?
I agree that, if the car was aligned to Euro heights, lowering it 1/4" in the front should be o.k.
Do you see spacers under the rack?
And yes, you'll be able to get the height you want and have the screws just about in the middle.

On a side-note, some people had problems with the 915 transmission when adding a lot of power, i.e., rdane split the 2nd gear far away from home.
Porsche changed to the G50 already in 1987 with the 3.2 liters, and certainly for the 3.6 and up.


Danny:
Those aftermarket scoops for the rear are sooo cool
How about mud-flaps, a roof rack and angora-wool steering wheel cover.
Are those rivet-add-ons plastic or steel?

Happy NY, guys.

[Danny_Ocean]

Originally posted by Gunter
Danny:
Those aftermarket scoops for the rear are sooo cool

Thank you! Most people like them as well, so you also have good taste. They're functional, too...

The flares are fiberglas for a reason. If you crunch them on the track, it's easy to slap on a new one. If they were metal and folded into your wheelwell, your day is over.

[RarlyL8]

I've not been back out to fiddle with the car just yet. I figured those adjustment screws have been all the way out for the better part of a decade, they can surely wait another day. Ha!

I've got a GT2 wing with functional side air rams on my car as well. They work great. I also have some home-built black mudflaps behind the front wheels. Can't hardly see them and they help save my paint.