Your experience with 3.2L MAF kit. Is it worth it??

[palle7688]

I'm looking for a slight performance rise, would a MAF kit be the way to go? Better throttle response and a few more horses.
The engine is a Euro model with 235 hp plus SSI's. I do some track days and i think my engine seems a bit lazy. I could of cause go for 3.4L, twinplug, cams, throttle body aso but where is the money best spend?
Here's link to some offering these MAF kits: http://www.promaxmotorsport.com/
It seems they are using a small computer between sensor and ECU, is this good or bad? price 1456$
http://www.autothority.com/products/Mass-Flow-Kits.html, price 1799$
www.cargraphic.com has one at 2114$
www.fvd.us has at $2393
Steve Wong/ http://911chips.com/HFM1.htm sells a very nice carbon fiber airbox with MAF at 2700$
Some of prices are from European currencies so might differ.
Lets hear it from the audience:-)

[Milu]

Before doing any mods verify your engine. You say it feels lazy - Check this out first before spending money on bolt on speed.

I had MAF fitted ages ago and I'm pleased with it.

Results seem to vary from car to car, from zero to about 25hp. It does become much more responsive than the hp increase would suggest.

Where is the money best spent.........that really is a million dollar question. I would start by making sure the engine (and ancillaries) is in good health. If not build your dream engine or fit a 3.6. If it is good then MAF, imho, is a good bolt on for the 3.2.

[Quicksilver]

To quote Jerry Woods and Bruce Anderson, "On a stock 3.2 an aftermarket MAF is a cash flow device. It improves the company's cash flow". They found a slight loss in power (inconclusive) from using a hotwire MAF. They did note that the MAF combined with the cone aircleaner increased the intake noise and gave most drivers the impression that they had more power. (never trust a HP figure that doesn't come with a dyno sheet...)

Unless something else has been done to the engine there is nothing to be gained in the MAF on the dyno. The chip that comes with it might make a noticeable difference but it is a better choice to just get a Steve Wong chip. The intake on the 3.2 isn't where it is bottled up anyway. The exhaust is the place where you can make some improvements.

Personally I really want to hear what MB911's new muffler sounds like for the 993 heat exchangers.

[jimi_c]

Personally I really want to hear what MB911's new muffler sounds like for the 993 heat exchangers.

+1

[Fast951]

Take a look at the dyno chart for a before and after runs. Same car (3.2L), same day, same dyno the only change was the MAF kit.

911 3.2L MAF dyno Chart

[palle7688]

fast951:
Take a look at the dyno chart for a before and after runs. Same car (3.2L), same day, same dyno the only change was the MAF kit.

Cool thanks and Vitesse sells at 1250$.
Anybody tested this kit??
When i say my engine is lazy i mean that i need some low rpm torque and better throttle response. It's in good condition.

[don911]

I have a Autothority MAF. It came on a replacement motor that I bought. I like it and according to my dyno sheets, it does provide a hp/tq gain. If you go the MAF route, I suggest dynoing to get a air fuel reading. The off the shelf chips that come with the autot seem to run too rich. I had Steve W do a custom chip for mine and gain some additional hp but more importantly, got a better a/f mixture. I posted dyno sheets from my mods in this thread.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/showthread.php?threadid=231489&highlight=dyno

Here are the last dynos after Steve W tweeked the chip to improve the a/f mixture...it also gained a few hp. The lower line is the pre-tweeked dyno run.

[cnielsen]

I put one on my car...only because a friend gave it to me for free. I could not tell a difference after doing the install. I think best bang for your buck is SSI exhaust and a Steve Wong chip.

[don911]

I haven't seen any proof that SSIs do any better than a cat bypass/euro premuffler on a 3.2L. Do you have any before/after dyno sheets showing the gain of SSIs on a 3.2?

[cnielsen]

It sounds like to 15-20 hp in my ear and that is what counts! ;-)

Probably from the same belief that racing seats make your car handle better...it certainly feels that way!

[WydRyd]

OUCH! Pretty expensive! Best "bang for buck" would be a low boost (0.5bar/7psi), bolt-on turbo setup for around 360HP at the stock C/R

[palle7688]

I already have SSI's but considering a MAF kit to supplement them.
If only Steve made an affordable kit, his pricey carbonbox MAF is very nice but comes into 50mm PMO territory. With PMO's who cares about MAF kits and extrude honed inlet manifolds:-)
WydRyd: first this is a Euro engine with 10.3:1 CR. I very much doubt you can run that amount of boost to gain those hp figures with a high CR boosted engine. 300hp on a 10.3 boosted engine is realistic.
And it surely sounds like a lot more money to me than the 1500$ a MAF kit costs. But if you have one for sale at that price PM me:-))))
I don't have to much time to spend on a engine rebuild and hours of tuning and adjusting on something that is not bolt on and known to work perfectly.
I actually have an Albrex compressor to fit on a 207 hp 3.2L, it's rated to deliver appr. 370 hp. Unfortunately the kit is not complete and I don't have the time to sort it and I don't have the correct engine.
If somebody knows this Albrex compressor I'm very interested in learning more about it.

[Venetian]

I"m assuming you can gain approximately 10 HP from the SW chip alone for $400. If this is the case it would seem that you are paying an addtional $2300 for the SW MAF in the hope of gaining another 10HP or so. Does not seem like very good economics.

[Quicksilver]

Originally posted by WydRyd
OUCH! Pretty expensive! Best "bang for buck" would be a low boost (0.5bar/7psi), bolt-on turbo setup for around 360HP at the stock C/R

Can't argue with this. An engine is an air pump. Pump more air/fuel mixture and get more power.

Usually the problem with turbocharging is "If more is better then too much is just right!" It is so hard to restrain yourself from trying to get "just a little bit more" and at some point you will exceed the limits of something. If you beat your head against the wall until you actually convince yourself to never go past a certain point (like .5 bar) you shouldn't have a problem with this.

[Tyson Schmidt]

The problem with most MAF kits is the air/fuel ratio is usually off. Steve Wong's kit has this worked out.

The best use of the MAF is if you want to run a more aggressive camshaft, and still have a decent idle and no stalling issues.

[sammyg2]

It looks from the dyno charts that the MAF kit kight provide an increase of around 10 hp. For $1500?
IMO, that is crazy.
I like spending about $10 to $15 per HP, not $150.

[don911]

I come up with roughly 24 fwhp with my math. (assuming 15% loss)

213.7rwhp/.85=251.4 fwhp
193.4rwhp/.85=227.5 fwhp

251-227=24 fwhp

It's still expensive hp and if the MAF didn't come with the engine I bought, I probably wouldn't spend the money one. However, I don't know any hp mod for a 3.2L that cost $10 to $15/hp.

[Jeff Alton]

Lets see, the 85ish HP I am hoping to get with my wild 3.4 is costing me ummmm errrr jeeeeezz well over $100 per hp. Yes, money not well spent, but it should be fun!

Cheers

[KFC911]

Originally posted by palle7688
I already have SSI's but considering a MAF kit to supplement them....

Maybe I missed it, but I didn't see what chip you are currently running. IMO, you need to investigate using one of Steve Wong's chips before you even consider his (or anyone's) MAF. Hint...dropping almost 200 lbs is 'free', and will provide more benefit than any option you've mentioned. I personally would also spend the $ on suspension & handling before spending big $ for relatively small incremental hp gains. Just my .02 worth...

[palle7688]

I'm sorry my mistake. standard chip.
This is a '76, originally Euro Carrara but i bought it with an SC engine in it which I've replaced with this 3.2L. Brakes are upgraded to the thicker 3.2 Carrera brakes with forced cooling to front rotors and hub block offs.
Better brakes will be next on my list.
Suspension is done, tie rods, torsion bars (hollow), plastic bushings, weltmeister swaybars and strutbrace.
I've got plenty of wheels to choose from: 9/11*15 gotti's, 8/9*16 Fuch's, 9/10*17 OZ, 9/10*18 Folger. Wheels fit under turbo flares.
The question is, if I buy a MAF kit from promaxx or vitesse (cheapest) is the chip ok?
As you can see all I need is some more grunt. I don't want to spend more than 2000-2500 $, but not on a MAF alone, what are your suggestions?