What's the best 911 for around $25,000

[Danny_Ocean]

Originally Posted by Bob Benson

Like Jasper, I gave up a wonderful SC for a 993, not a 996, mostly for the 3 point belt in the back seat for my 5 year old daughter.

My biggest concern would be getting someone un-strapped and out of the back seat in an emergency. Would rather have a back door, no?

[jwetering]

Hey Jeff, Bob - Geoff was telling me you all had a good autocross last weekend. Sorry I missed it.

I miss having a Porsche over here. I gotta tell you the European style driving is where it's at. Nobody - I mean nobody hogs the fast lane. Speed limits are 70 mph on the motorways, but anything up to 100 is tolerated. Don't get me started on the backroads. Speed limits are 40-50-60 mph, and everybody is polite and road aware. Everybody just wants to keep moving, I've encountered no attitude on the roads at all. I drive like I always did in Canada except instead of getting dozens of tickets and no end of grief, I fit right in. There's no intersections. It's all done with roundabouts and if no one is coming you don't even have to slow down! 60 mph, apex the round bit, and carry on! I honestly don't know if I can ever go back!

Anyway - to the OP...on the topic of 996 maintenance. I did what little was required by myself. Oil changes were a ten minute job and I didn't even have to jack the car up, although it did make it easer. Brakes were easy, as they normally are. Transmission fluid swap - easy. The toughest job I had to do was replace a coolant tank. I had to do partial engine drop, but even with that it was done in about three hours. It was a pain, BUT oh so much esier than replacing the fuel line in my friend Marcus' 1988 Carera clubsport. That took five days and required removal of the intake manifold up!

It kills me when people say you can't DIY a 996...what the hell is that about? Absolute total utter rubbish! It's a car! Just what kind of DIY are you planning on doing? I guess if you had to set up the valve train then the 996 might be more difficult but really..is that aDIY job? (I know it is for you Jeff, but I gotta draw the line somewhere).

On balance I'd have to say the 996 was much easier to maintain than my 911, which needed endless little things done to it. The 996 just worked didn't it...the job list was very short, and the jobs easy.

I have limited experience with the 964 and none with the 993, but those two are probably the most complex ones of all. I understand the 993 has two oil filters, and one of them is located underneath and up in the engine so is very difficult to reach. Uughh.

rant off

Good luck with your choice. I ran both kids in the back of my 996 all the time. I loved it, they loved it. Perfect family car.

[Bob Benson]

Originally Posted by Danny_Ocean

My biggest concern would be getting someone un-strapped and out of the back seat in an emergency. Would rather have a back door, no?

Hi Danny,

You make a good point, and for most of our driving, we have two other 4 door vehicles, our daily drivers so to speak. The 993 is for Porsche related activities from socials to D/E, and I wanted my family involved and this car is better for that than my SC was.

Bob

[Bob Benson]

I didn't mention that the new owner of your 996 came and introduced himself to me at the autocross. He loves the car and is really looking forward to trying autocross in it.

Take care over there Jasper and stay in touch.

Bob

[jwetering]

Originally Posted by Bob Benson

I didn't mention that the new owner of your 996 came and introduced himself to me at the autocross. He loves the car and is really looking forward to trying autocross in it.

Take care over there Jasper and stay in touch.

Bob

Yes - he's posted proud new owner pics over on Rennlist and said he'd dropped by. Make sure you and the gang show him a good time.

I'll keep in touch through the forums Bob...sure wish I had a Porsche - a bit of witdrawal creeps in from time to time. Shot term pain long term gain though..

cheers

[tmsautoart]

Originally Posted by Danny_Ocean

I find it hilarious. You see these "rough & tough" macho guys who, when single, race cars, ride bikes, climb mountains, sky-dive, etc., etc., then they get married, all of a sudden, the first words out of their mouths is "I've got to check with the wife..." Next time you see them, they're at the mall pushing a stroller. LOL (insert "pussy-whipped" smiley here).

Thats because they realize there is more to life than "just" cars, bikes, skydiving or whatever...and trust me, my life is consumed buy cars, but nothing, I repeat, NOTHING feels as great as when my 2yr. old son gives me a hug or wants to sit in the drivers seat of a car, or play with his matchbox cars or throw the ball around . I'll take married life anyday over single life. My wife said she would never let me sell my 911, even when I had a baby on the way. I don't have to ask her when I want to purchase something for my car as long as funds permit. She even watched Speeds entire coverage of the Rolex 24 hrs w/ me as well. I guess I just found the right one and i'm sure a lot of you guys feel the same. Oh well...to each his own "tough guy"

On topic: I would imagine a 996 fairs better than a 993 or earlier in a crash test. More of a "modern" car as far as structural strength/ safety concerns etc. I could be wrong....

[tmsautoart]

Originally Posted by kwm

The only people who will tell you not to have kids are people WHO DONT HAVE KIDS. I have a 4 month old and I often think to myself how clueless I was about well EVERYTHING before I was a father and now NOTHING else compares to her...my car is just a car, my dog is just a dog, and money and bills are just money and bills and when I am playing with her none of that even matters for a second. I really do feel sorry for people who don't have kids b/c it is something that you will never understand until you have been a Dad. That being said, it is still important to have hobbies and toys which is why I still have my SC and my bike. I have had the same conversation with my wife about should the baby ever ride in my car due to lack of safety features but if you think about it babies and airbags don't mix, my SC stops way harder and faster than any other car I have ever had or car that we have now, and it is way less likely to flip than our pick up or Enclave so I think people are really splitting hairs when then get into this topic. Just my 2 cents.

I second that... I just saw this post AFTER I put in my 2 cents above. Well said!

[kwm]

Originally Posted by Danny_Ocean
I find it hilarious. You see these "rough & tough" macho guys who, when single, race cars, ride bikes, climb mountains, sky-dive, etc., etc., then they get married, all of a sudden, the first words out of their mouths is "I've got to check with the wife..." Next time you see them, they're at the mall pushing a stroller. LOL (insert "pussy-whipped" smiley here).

Danny_Ocena, you are describing people who live to extremes. That is why when they have kids they do it up to the fullest. They are not people who live half-a$$ lives. Therefore, when they have kids they coach whatever they can, go to everything they can and give whatever they can to their kids whenever they can (w/o spoiling them of course). It is also called being an adult and being a human being. People are meant to procreate it is almost your sole purpose for being alive but you don't realize any of that until you have a kid. So once again for all those people who don't have kids it is just something you will never understand and no amount of baby-sitting other kids or having a gang of nieces and nephews will also not get you there either.

[jwetering]

I have had this argument with my wife a hundred times. She figured taking the family out in the 2000 Chevy Tracker (her car) was safer than in the 996 (my car).

Used to make my blood boil. ****ty brakes, center of gravity up at shoulder height, the thing couldn't get out of it's own way in an emergency without flipping over. ....Eventually she came around and now she's almost scared to drive it.

Good thing I'm getting a Volvo over here in the UK.

With regards children versus no children that's not an argument we should be having....I love my kids, but they're a hugely life changing. Kids require a complete and total change in life perspective. If a guy (or gal) doesn't want to change their life that radically, then no harm no foul, I wouldn't even think to criticize them.

On the other hand Danny....to somehow imply that pushing a stroller is unmanly is simply ridiculous. If I were the type of person to take offense (and I am oh so not that type of person) then I would tke offense at that statement.

But I don't care. I put my kids in the Porsche without a moments hesitation.

[Aerkuld]

If I may chime in here regarding the 996. As an owner of an '87 weekend car and a 996 daily driver I have to say that it is my impression that the 996 is a car that was designed from the outset to be easy to build and service. Anyone who thinks that DIY is difficult to impossible on a 996 doesn't know what they're talking about. I have only had to do relatively minor jobs on mine so far; brake rotors, brake light switch, oil & filter changes, a window mechanism replacement, and an alternator regulator replacement. All of these jobs have required a little more research than similar jobs on the '87 but mainly because there are less people that have done them up to now. When I do do anything new I like to take careful notes and pass the information along to try to build the knowledge base. There are new things being done almost daily. Even more specialist things such as engine rebuilds are now being done and parts are becoming available (a one time criticism). I have had no problems getting hold of any parts so far and nothing seems any more expensive than the equivalent parts on the '87. I like to think that the current 996 DIY'ers are blazing the trail for future enthusiast owners. Add in the fact that the 996 is a very easy and comfortable car to live with on a day to day basis and using one as a daily driver makes a fair bit of sense. Don't rule it out of the equation is all I would say.
That said my 996 is never going to replace my air cooled car for raw enjoyment, character, and classic looks.

[Danny_Ocean]

My original comment was directed only at folks who always say "I have to check with the wife". What happens when you get married? The wife becomes the boss, the leader, the Alpha dog? I'm sure, for some people, marriage & kids are great. I know many married people who are happy and have cool kids. I truly feel sorry for the guys who are reduced to wimps when they get that ring through their nose, err...finger. I will always pity the suckers, though, who have to "run it by the wife". Not all married guys turn in to that person. So, if you are married with kids and still have your nut-sack, here's to you!

Originally Posted by kwm

Originally Posted by Danny_Ocean
I find it hilarious. You see these "rough & tough" macho guys who, when single, race cars, ride bikes, climb mountains, sky-dive, etc., etc., then they get married, all of a sudden, the first words out of their mouths is "I've got to check with the wife..." Next time you see them, they're at the mall pushing a stroller. LOL (insert "pussy-whipped" smiley here).

Danny_Ocena, you are describing people who live to extremes. That is why when they have kids they do it up to the fullest. They are not people who live half-a$$ lives. Therefore, when they have kids they coach whatever they can, go to everything they can and give whatever they can to their kids whenever they can (w/o spoiling them of course). It is also called being an adult and being a human being. People are meant to procreate it is almost your sole purpose for being alive but you don't realize any of that until you have a kid. So once again for all those people who don't have kids it is just something you will never understand and no amount of baby-sitting other kids or having a gang of nieces and nephews will also not get you there either.

[rnln]

Hi Aerkuld,
I am not sure how to put the question together so let's see... How about, does it require a little bit more $income to own a later 996, compare to a 911? If most can be done DIY, and some at the shop/prof.
In your opinion, if you can only choose one, which one of yours will you pick?

Hi Danny,
How about this...
1- when you married another person, 2 people become 1. So when you talk to a guy, he's a 1/2 of the person, he need to check with the agreement from the other 1/2 to comeplete "1" decision. And the same will come around, when she need a decision, she will have to go through "let me ask my husband". Maybe it is very personal choice. Either you have to check with her and she has to check with you, or no one has to check with no one.
2- May be a "Let me check with my wife" is just a reason to back himself out of something?

Originally Posted by Aerkuld

If I may chime in here regarding the 996. As an owner of an '87 weekend car and a 996 daily driver I have to say that it is my impression that the 996 is a car that was designed from the outset to be easy to build and service. Anyone who thinks that DIY is difficult to impossible on a 996 doesn't know what they're talking about. I have only had to do relatively minor jobs on mine so far; brake rotors, brake light switch, oil & filter changes, a window mechanism replacement, and an alternator regulator replacement. All of these jobs have required a little more research than similar jobs on the '87 but mainly because there are less people that have done them up to now. When I do do anything new I like to take careful notes and pass the information along to try to build the knowledge base. There are new things being done almost daily. Even more specialist things such as engine rebuilds are now being done and parts are becoming available (a one time criticism). I have had no problems getting hold of any parts so far and nothing seems any more expensive than the equivalent parts on the '87. I like to think that the current 996 DIY'ers are blazing the trail for future enthusiast owners. Add in the fact that the 996 is a very easy and comfortable car to live with on a day to day basis and using one as a daily driver makes a fair bit of sense. Don't rule it out of the equation is all I would say.
That said my 996 is never going to replace my air cooled car for raw enjoyment, character, and classic looks.

[Danny_Ocean]

Originally Posted by rnln

2- May be a "Let me check with my wife" is just a reason to back himself out of something?

How about "manning up", growing a set and just saying "No!" when you want to back out of something instead of playing the "wifey won't let me" card?

[hcoles]

Originally Posted by Danny_Ocean

How about "manning up", growing a set and just saying "No!" when you want to back out of something instead of playing the "wifey won't let me" card?

or along the same lines "I don't think I can afford that, at this point, so I'm not doing it". When people say "checking with the wife" prolly that's what the situation is 90+% of the time.

[Nine9six]

Originally Posted by DW SD

Buy a 993. I believe you can find a good one for that price. It will take some effort and negotiation skills.

Doug

IF you can find a GOOD 993 for that price BUY IT!
VERY few and far between in my humble estimation.
PS If anyone has a GOOD 993 manual trans 911, that does not have a salvaged title, in that price range please PM me. I am a buyer at that price.

[rnln]

Well, each person has his own way on saying thing. When I hear "...check with my wife" after a long talk or several calls, when I try to sell something, I know it's a nice way for them to back out.

hcoles,
agree.

Originally Posted by Danny_Ocean

How about "manning up", growing a set and just saying "No!" when you want to back out of something instead of playing the "wifey won't let me" card?

[Danny_Ocean]

Originally Posted by rnln

When I hear "...check with my wife" after a long talk or several calls, when I try to sell something, I know it's a nice way for them to back out.

When I hear "...have to check with the wife", I know I'm talking to an emasculated wus with no spine. I prefer not to deal with these types. Heck, how many times do you hear a woman say "I have to check with my husband?". Almost never.

[hytem]

If you want a driver, get the latest model one you can find with reasonable mileage. That would be a 996. The RMS issue is probably overplayed, though look at the the car's history. Don't spend more than $15K on a 15-20 yo car , and only if you want a garage queen you service yourself.

[bhyde]

Originally Posted by kwm

The only people who will tell you not to have kids are people WHO DONT HAVE KIDS. I have a 4 month old and I often think to myself how clueless I was about well EVERYTHING before I was a father and now NOTHING else compares to her...my car is just a car, my dog is just a dog, and money and bills are just money and bills and when I am playing with her none of that even matters for a second. I really do feel sorry for people who don't have kids b/c it is something that you will never understand until you have been a Dad. That being said, it is still important to have hobbies and toys which is why I still have my SC and my bike. I have had the same conversation with my wife about should the baby ever ride in my car due to lack of safety features but if you think about it babies and airbags don't mix, my SC stops way harder and faster than any other car I have ever had or car that we have now, and it is way less likely to flip than our pick up or Enclave so I think people are really splitting hairs when then get into this topic. Just my 2 cents.

The only people who will tell you not to get a Porsche are people WHO DONT HAVE PORSCHES. I have an ‘86 and I often think to myself how clueless I was about well EVERYTHING before I was a owner and now NOTHING else compares to her...my kid is just a kid, my dog is just a dog, and money and bills are just money and bills and when I am playing with her none of that even matters for a second. I really do feel sorry for people who don't have Porsches b/c it is something that you will never understand until you have been an owner. That being said, it is still important to have kids and toys which is why I still have my son and my bike. I have had the same conversation with my wife about should the kid ever be allowed to ride in my car due to how messy he is, but if you think about it, kids and Porsches don't mix. Just my 2 cents.

[jwetering]

Originally Posted by bhyde

The only people who will tell you not to get a Porsche are people WHO DONT HAVE PORSCHES. I have an ‘86 and I often think to myself how clueless I was about well EVERYTHING before I was a owner and now NOTHING else compares to her...my kid is just a kid, my dog is just a dog, and money and bills are just money and bills and when I am playing with her none of that even matters for a second. I really do feel sorry for people who don't have Porsches b/c it is something that you will never understand until you have been an owner. That being said, it is still important to have kids and toys which is why I still have my son and my bike. I have had the same conversation with my wife about should the kid ever be allowed to ride in my car due to how messy he is, but if you think about it, kids and Porsches don't mix. Just my 2 cents.

Nicely put

....Although I personaly have no problem mixing kids and my Porsches. They clash once in a while, but hey, you an't have everything.

As far as "checking with the wife" ...Nope, not me. Flesh marbles intact.

I've blown off a few Porsche events (tours, track, AX, garage session) to spend quality time with the kids though...absolutely.