Think I am going to be sick-Panamera!

[911st]

I just went to Porsche.com for the first time in a while. Could not belive my eyes when I saw that the Porsce four door sedan was comming. I think I am going to be sick.

I love Porsche's. Have had a 78 & 91 turbo, 72 911 w a 2.8 twin plug & RS MFI, a 72 911S built to factory Sport Purposes specification w full ST interior, a 928, a couple of 914's, and now an 85 Carrera w LSD and factory sport seats for DE's.

Watching the growing pains with the conversion to watter cooling was kind of difficult. The Twin Turbos were kind of cool for a bit and the GT3 made this time palatable and not a total waste.

For me the SUV Is kind of a "what were you thinking" conclusion for from day one. "Lets take a VW Tourage and stick a Boxter front end on it. Our faithful will eat them up". Jeez.

But now with a Porsche four door sedan I just have to say WTF are they doing. If you have not seen it go to Porsche.com and take a look. Kind of an updated Citroen Maserati from the 70's or somthing.

I am sorry but Porsche's do not have four doors. Watter ok, four doors no!

Maybe Lotus is almost more Porsche than Porsche. I just do not know what to think anymore.

It is just a shame what they are doing the Porsche brand and I do not know if it can take much more before it suffers greatly. Porsche is lucky to have those of us that live for the earlier cars to prop up the brand.

I hear Porsche is pulling back on there parts support for much of the early cars. I also head somthing about no longer being able to buy a 911 without a sunroof...

Wake up Porsche. Some of us may not be able to take many more of such insults.

How about doing a run of 3.6 993 long blocks for under $10k for the faithfull. Or put your 3.8 in the Cayman with big brakes, shell seats and if you have to build it somwhere so you can get the price near $50k.

Don't take our money and spend it on such nonsense.

[pwd72s]

The market will decide. I take it you don't want one?

[Geronimo '74]

I, on the other hand, like it.
But is does feel like they are losing focus on the 911.
And the pulling out of parts support would be a shame, I agree.

[exc911ence]

I don't mind the idea of a Porsche sports sedan but I do have a problem with an ugly Porsche sports sedan, and IMHO the Panamera is a real ugly duckling in photographs. I'll hold final judgement until I see one in the metal though my hopes aren't high that it will suddenly transform into a beautiful swan in person.

[sand_man]

Originally Posted by 911st

Maybe Lotus is almost more Porsche than Porsche. I just do not know what to think anymore.

It certainly seems so...

[rothaus]

That company must do something right, since it owns more than 50% of VW

I'm waiting when the small mid-engine roadster will be build between Porsche and VW.

Cheers

[ramonesfreak]

wow that is awful. the person narrating that video is damn annoying too. i like the seats but thats it

[doublestuff]

Maybe Lotus is almost more Porsche than Porsche. I just do not know what to think anymore.

So if Porsche sold their cars with Toyota engines, that would be OK with you?

My 911 is 30 years old, and bears only a superficial resemblance to anything Porsche is making right now. The same would be true of ANY vintage car. I agree that some may not like the styling of the Panamera (myself included, although it's growing on me). I saw my first Nissan GT-R last week, and I think it's the ugliest car I've seen in years, but I am pretty sure they will fly out of the showroom.

Don't take our money and spend it on such nonsense.

What money? Do you think Porsche gets anything from those of us buying and selling 20, 30, and 40 year-old cars with their name on them? If we aren't purchasing new cars (and I'm with you, I prefer the old air-cooled cars by far), then we don't have a dog in this fight. I wouldn't worry about a company's new products if I don't intend to buy them. If you like the Panamera, buy one if you can. If you don't like it, it's certainly fine to say you don't, but it's not like you have invested in the project somehow - just don't buy one!

Porsche is lucky to have those of us that live for the earlier cars to prop up the brand.

I could be wrong here, but I seriously doubt that most new Porsche Cayenne buyers would know the difference between a 911 and a 944 beyond the headlights. People like our host benefit from our enthusiasm for these cars - I doubt Porsche cares at all. If they did, I'd be able to buy a new targa top for less than I paid for the car!

[tmsautoart]

Hasn't a 4door been in the works since the 60's I remember reading something about Ferry wanting a sedan. I know i've seen prototypes of long hood 911 looking sedans. I don't think the concept is anything new for Porsche, the just had the means to develop and produce one now. I believe they are trying to survive by broadening their market just as they did w/ the 912 and 914 and so on.... i could be wrong.

ps. I do agree w/ all above and think that Porsche is losing touch, especially w/ the faithful.

[efhughes3]

Originally Posted by 911st

I just went to Porsche.com for the first time in a while. Could not belive my eyes when I saw that the Porsce four door sedan was comming. I think I am going to be sick.

I love Porsche's. Have had a 78 & 91 turbo, 72 911 w a 2.8 twin plug & RS MFI, a 72 911S built to factory Sport Purposes specification w full ST interior, a 928, a couple of 914's, and now an 85 Carrera w LSD and factory sport seats for DE's.

Watching the growing pains with the conversion to watter cooling was kind of difficult. The Twin Turbos were kind of cool for a bit and the GT3 made this time palatable and not a total waste.

For me the SUV Is kind of a "what were you thinking" conclusion for from day one. "Lets take a VW Tourage and stick a Boxter front end on it. Our faithful will eat them up". Jeez.

But now with a Porsche four door sedan I just have to say WTF are they doing. If you have not seen it go to Porsche.com and take a look. Kind of an updated Citroen Maserati from the 70's or somthing.

I am sorry but Porsche's do not have four doors. Watter ok, four doors no!

Maybe Lotus is almost more Porsche than Porsche. I just do not know what to think anymore.

It is just a shame what they are doing the Porsche brand and I do not know if it can take much more before it suffers greatly. Porsche is lucky to have those of us that live for the earlier cars to prop up the brand.

I hear Porsche is pulling back on there parts support for much of the early cars. I also head somthing about no longer being able to buy a 911 without a sunroof...

Wake up Porsche. Some of us may not be able to take many more of such insults.

How about doing a run of 3.6 993 long blocks for under $10k for the faithfull. Or put your 3.8 in the Cayman with big brakes, shell seats and if you have to build it somwhere so you can get the price near $50k.

Don't take our money and spend it on such nonsense.

You don't take yourself seriously, right? What money of yours is Porsche "taking and spending on nonsense"? Some parts you've bought? Do you really think your contribution to their bottom line is going to keep them as a mult-billion dollar international business afloat, and that they should listen to all of the owners of air-cooled cars? Maybe Apple should've stuck to computers and forgotten the Ipod....I'm sure they upset some of their devoted followers.

There were a lot who said the same about the 928 when it came out. I wish I had my '91 still, it was the best highway car I've ever driven. My guess is the Panamera will be a similar experience. If someone is looking for a performance type of sedan, and they have the money-why not a Panamera?

I don't like the looks of the Panamera-at least in pics. The same was true for the Cayman before I saw it. Since this is a free country, you do get to vote with your dollars and not buy a Cayenne or such. But, I'm not sure your credentials warrant a second-guessing of Porsche's business decisions. That isn't an insult to you, as I'd fit the same mold.

[stevemfr]

Originally Posted by rothaus

That company must do something right, since it owns more than 50% of VW

I'm waiting when the small mid-engine roadster will be build between Porsche and VW.

Cheers

Yeah, like knowing how to play the market. I am happy for Porsche's success in the last decade, and I admire Wendelin Wiedeking - but a car guy he ain't.

[burgermeister]

I'm not in the market for $50K+ automobiles (or even $20K + automobiles), but I really like the Panamera.

First, it doesn't look like the other generic jellybean 4-door luxomobiles. Who needs another 7 series BMW, Lexus, or Mercedes? Porsches have always been different cars from the mainstream (Cayenne excepted) - it's why I've always liked them, and I'm glad they chose to be different with this one too.

Second, I really like the quasi-wagon / hatch concept. It makes the car almost like an SUV for practicality.

And Last, I suspect the side view profile enables a low car while maintaining decent headroom in the 2nd row seats.

If they managed to keep the weight to around 3500lbs (no idea what it is - anyone know?), it should be quite a different car from the 4000lb competition!

I look forward to seeing one in the flesh.

[ramonesfreak]

seems there is and has been for some time, a trend or focus to make larger and larger cars. look where cars have come from....914, MG, Triumph, vintage 911, 356....to now. even ferrari's cars have been getting progressively longer and wider and taller i think. look at the dino and now look at the the 2009 ferrari california. dear god what has happened... props to lotus for making a tiny little sports car. too bad i hate how it looks, but give respect for what it is.

this is what i like about the boxter. when your standing next to it, it has a small presence....compared to the rest of the modern offerings from porsche

[ramonesfreak]

Originally Posted by efhughes3

You don't take yourself seriously, right? What money of yours is Porsche "taking and spending on nonsense"? Some parts you've bought? Do you really think your contribution to their bottom line is going to keep them as a mult-billion dollar international business afloat, and that they should listen to all of the owners of air-cooled cars? Maybe Apple should've stuck to computers and forgotten the Ipod....I'm sure they upset some of their devoted followers.

There were a lot who said the same about the 928 when it came out. I wish I had my '91 still, it was the best highway car I've ever driven. My guess is the Panamera will be a similar experience. If someone is looking for a performance type of sedan, and they have the money-why not a Panamera?

I don't like the looks of the Panamera-at least in pics. The same was true for the Cayman before I saw it. Since this is a free country, you do get to vote with your dollars and not buy a Cayenne or such. But, I'm not sure your credentials warrant a second-guessing of Porsche's business decisions. That isn't an insult to you, as I'd fit the same mold.

good points. but, there is always the argument that if they were true car enthusiasts and thus making unusual and distinctive cars, that they would be focused on keeping the overhead to a minimum and less on increasing in size (physically and financially) and; more on building cars that dont necessarily appeal to anyone with a huge paycheck and a need for status

you could say that those things always mattered to them as a company and as well to the buyers....but somehow, i believe that the demographics have fundamentally changed and so has the company, in the name of sales over substance. history usually indicates that when that happens, mediocre and inexpensive designs take over. such is the way of mass production

the 928 in its time, was a very wicked looking car. totally original and stunning....yea some didnt dig it, but now.....a nice quality 928 in the flesh is almost always WOW for anybody. i dont think we will be saying that about the new model sedans


what person looks at even a 308 and says....ahh, not so cool. come on, the design is breathtakingly beautiful still

oh..and i wonder about apple...come on, what devoted follower of apple doesnt praise it for the ipod? ide reckon to guess, 1 or 2 people....some companies get ideas and designs right. apple is one of them

[911st]

Any of the big dollars spent on R&D and setting up for a four door is money divereted from the cars that make Porsche a Porsche.

Trend out the direction they are taking and one day they could end up being car producer with a sports car instead of a Sports Car company with an SUV and a Four Door.

I love the GT3. Tell me I can not get it without a sunroof and something is wrong. I love the idea of a Cayman Club Sport that is lighter and with a suspention that can be adjusted for the track. But why not let it have the 3.8. It just can not be any more expensive to do that. However, that will take from the 911 line so no 3.8 Cayman CS for us.

It kind of looks like Porsche is not as concerned about makeing the best sports car they can than managing the brand for Profit.

[burgermeister]

Originally Posted by 911st

It kind of looks like Porsche is not as concerned about makeing the best sports car they can than managing the brand for Profit.

Porsche builds very low volume cars for sale in many different markets, each with their own slew of different regulations and requirements and associated certification tests.

The R&D and tooling costs for a new model architecture are in the 500M to 1500M range.

All of these costs are the same if you're building 25,000 cars per year or 500,000.

So you bet they're trying to get the most money from every sale. Shame on them if they didn't. And if they don't make money, eventually they won't be around.

Want a pure sports car? Caterham makes several (relatively) cheap, no frills cars with incredible performance for the money ... or there are always those old air cooled 911's everyone here is always talking about ...

[boxster03]

[efhughes3]

Guys, some of you don't seem to grasp that it isn't about staying true to Sports Cars, it is about survival. Oh, and it is about PROFIT-the thing that drives companies and keeps them alive. I can't help it-I have to insert here!

Look how many manufacturers of sports cars or high-end luxury cars have been bought up by Ford, etc. Then when things start going to hell and the bean counters start to freak, they get sold to companies in India and such. Porsche wanted to stay independent and Wendelin has provided them that protection in his strategy.

[pwd72s]

Originally Posted by burgermeister

I'm not in the market for $50K+ automobiles (or even $20K + automobiles), but I really like the Panamera.

First, it doesn't look like the other generic jellybean 4-door luxomobiles. Who needs another 7 series BMW, Lexus, or Mercedes? Porsches have always been different cars from the mainstream (Cayenne excepted) - it's why I've always liked them, and I'm glad they chose to be different with this one too.

Second, I really like the quasi-wagon / hatch concept. It makes the car almost like an SUV for practicality.

And Last, I suspect the side view profile enables a low car while maintaining decent headroom in the 2nd row seats.

If they managed to keep the weight to around 3500lbs (no idea what it is - anyone know?), it should be quite a different car from the 4000lb competition!

I look forward to seeing one in the flesh.

I am. In the market for a new $50K or less vehicle. I've looked at a few recently, nothing makes me want to part with the money. So, I'm probably doomed to a life of appliance vehicles for the rest of my days. Just daily drivers, nothing exciting. But...the 4 door Porsche? The base 6 cyl is rumored to be $125K, and the price goes up for the V-8. It'll be interesting to see if it sells. I suspect many will buy it solely for status...and this in an age when Miley Sirus dumped her Cayenne for a Prius....

[berettafan]

Originally Posted by 911st

How about doing a run of 3.6 993 long blocks for under $10k for the faithfull.

O M G is that a good effing idea!!!!