Anyone interested in getting a 911 repaired/checked on a Celette Repair Bench?

[David Liam]

I started searching for Celettes many years ago and started to collect them. I quickly learned the key to the 911 is its chassis, it’s the most expensive and difficult aspect of any restoration or repair. Stunning paint and roaring engines get all of the attention, but you have to kneel down, look underneath and check the coachwork.

In my decades of experience with 911s, it’s the chassis that ultimately decides a car’s worthiness. That is why I ended up with a Celette collection. It’s really the only way to go when repairing a 911 Chassis. I repaired 911s on jack stands as a teenager, you can get by (I don’t want to deter DIY-ers), but there is no comparison to a Celette.

A Celette repair bench with dedicated Celette 911 Fixtures ensures a true chassis. The bench accompanied with a Celette Cobra Dozer allows collision damage to be persuaded back to its exact fixtured location. It takes a lot of finesse, tons of hydraulic force and experience to repair a tweaked chassis, but in most cases they can saved. They have to be severely mangled to be unrepairable. Most often I see front ends crushed in and rear ends pushed over to one side, no big deal to fix. Porsches are built to be pushed to the limit and drivers are meant to find that limit and become comfortable with that limit. Celettes have been around since the beginning of the 911, Porsche knew they would be needed and recommended their use in the factory manual.

When it comes to corrosion repair, Celettes are the best, fixture the chassis in and remove the corroded panels, no need to worry about it flexing around on you. Bolt the car down, bolt the repair panel down, everything will be perfectly aligned, one less thing to worry about while fitting and installing the replacement panel. That’s the case with the front pan and longitudinals anyway, some of the most critical mounting points on the chassis. When it comes to panel installation, I only butt weld when splicing into a panel. After metal finishing it makes the repair undetectable with a coat of primer. A Pro Spot PR-10 resistance spot welder makes welding the seams the push of a button. Plug welding is still required in many cases, but the PR-10 is a huge time saver and replicates the factory spot welds. One sided spot welding quickly replicates factory spots as well. It finishes repairs off nicely and looks factory correct.

If anyone is interested in getting their 911 on a Celette for any reason, please let me know. I often get requests to “check” a 911 chassis. It’s important to know a chassis is true before putting thousands of dollars and thousands of hours into a car. I am located in the Northeast, I usually try to lay low in the Porsche Community, so I am not a big picture poster, it’s just not my style as of now, but feel free to message me, post or get in touch with me, 845-605-9010, and I would be happy to share and discuss my experience. I have too many Celettes sitting around without 911s on them, I need help filling them up.

The posted pictures are what got me hooked on Celettes, hopefully it does the same for you.

[blue72s]

Hi David,

I have a question regarding the differences between the 911 and 930 turbo sheet metal mount (auxiliary carrier pin) in the front part of the floopan for the cross member.

According to the factory repair manual, the 930 carrier pin is installed 21 mm higher, but is the Celette fixture for this pin still the same as the 911 or a different one?

The reason I'm asking is because the 911 carrier pin is angled 3 degrees from vertical line and I need to know whether the 930 pin is positioned at a different angle or still the same at 3 degrees?

Below are 2 pictures (see red arrow on the drawing):

I hope to hear from you soon.

[911Cabrio]

I have been using a Blackhawk bench with dedicated fixtures for the 911 and 930. Either Blackhawk or Celette is the way to go when doing chassis repairs.

Blue72s. The Blackhawk fixtures for the 911 and the 930 are the same. a 21mm spacer is added for the 930 difference in height. Bob

[gomezoneill]

Where in NY do you live? I have a 85 Carrera that has a slight tweek in the l/s b pillar. PO was backing up with drivers door open hit the garage door frame. I live near Saratoga.

[nvr2mny]

Man, I wish you weren't so far away. Would like to have a couple of cars looked at.

[Tom '74 911]

Originally Posted by blue72s

I have a question regarding the differences between the 911 and 930 turbo sheet metal mount (auxiliary carrier pin) in the front part of the floopan for the cross member.

According to the factory repair manual, the 930 carrier pin is installed 21 mm higher, but is the Celette fixture for this pin still the same as the 911 or a different one?

Looking at the Celette set-up sheets, I think there are different fixtures for that location for 911 vs. 930. The sheets show different part numbers. I have that complete fixture set & can check to verify - I haven't used the 930 fixtures so they'd be stashed in the box, but I'm pretty sure I remember seeing them... Might take me a bit, but I'll try to remember to check.

& I agree.... I have a MUF7 Celette bench & it's the coolest tool I own!

Tom

[Tom '74 911]

Was just looking through my photos & found this one of the two different jigs.

The top one (#6) is the 911 jig, the bottom (#32) is the 930 jig.

These are part of the Celette set 551.300 (for 911) & 551.309 (for 930)

Hope that helps.

Tom

[sugarwood]

A celette... COLLECTION !??!

Just when you think you’ve seen the heights of niche hobbyist quirks.
This thread really showcases the hardcore extremes of the air cooled 911 culture

I am not far, and welcome the chance to see a 911 mounted to a Celette in 2017.

[Kraftwerk]

This is a cool offer, glad I don't need it, but cool to have offered this service to others who might.

[flat6pilot]

I'd love to get mine on one. I know it has a tweak or two. Do you make house calls? I'm in the Seattle area.

[blue72s]

Originally Posted by Tom '74 911

Was just looking through my photos & found this one of the two different jigs.

The top one (#6) is the 911 jig, the bottom (#32) is the 930 jig.

These are part of the Celette set 551.300 (for 911) & 551.309 (for 930)

Hope that helps.

Tom

Hi Tom,
Many thanks for the info and picture.

Can you tell the angle (auxiliary carrier pin) of the 930 jig? Does it appear to have the same angle as the 911 jig (3 degrees from vertical line) or lesser angle?

[T77911S]

i think a friend here has a celette, not sure about fixtures.
not sure if he has access to it since he closed his shop.

[David Liam]

Thanks for the interest everyone.

Tom '74 911, Do those fixtures go into the MZ towers?

I have some sets of the really old ones, but they look more or less the same. 77.350 for the 911 and 77.304 for the 930. My Celette book mentioned 77.303 for Turbo as well up to August '76, not sure if the very, very early Turbos were different. The yellow ones might be 77.303s.

Definitely a difference as Tom '74 911 showed. The angle is tough to tell, I am going to say maybe, I'd really need to check with a level or something precise. The rear transmission mount is different for the 930 as well. Slight difference in height and has a slight pitch forward, never noticed until now. The noticeable difference is the bolt location.

A few pictures below of all of this.

[Tom '74 911]

Originally Posted by blue72s

Hi Tom,
Many thanks for the info and picture.

Can you tell the angle (auxiliary carrier pin) of the 930 jig? Does it appear to have the same angle as the 911 jig (3 degrees from vertical line) or lesser angle?

I did some measuring with a digital angle finder and as far as I can tell, the 930 fixture is sloped about 3 degrees LESS to the rear than the 911 fixture. So if the shop drawings show the 911 point to be 3 degrees from level, I'd say the same 930 point is about flat...

That's the best I can do for you! My bench was not set up level, so my measurements were just relative...

Hope that helps,

Tom

[Tom '74 911]

Originally Posted by David Liam

Tom '74 911, Do those fixtures go into the MZ towers?

Hi David,

Yes, the fixtures and bench I have (MUF7 I think) use the MZ tower system.

I love the photos of your older benches! Those are really cool pieces & it looks like it's all in pristine shape!

Tom

[Willem Fick]

Hi David,

I am way to far away to take you up on your generous offer, but would really appreciate it if you could send me a couple of detailed pics of your rig? I am in the process of building a chassis jig, and it would really help a lot!

Warm regards,

Willem

[faapgar]

Wow,what a great machined tool.Fred

[onboost]

Ahhh nice thread..

As both David and Tom have stated... the Cellette is the only way to go for correct chassis alignment especially in cases of structural damage, certain restoration procedures etc... of course having and knowing how to use it properly are two different things as well..

We've seen a lot of converted DE cars that have alignment issue after being restored back for street use. The chassis' have been tweaked and twisted over many years of track use, and that thought/issue was not considered during the restoration until the cars are ready for the road only to find that proper alignment is off.

Just set-up a bench for a previously raced RSA being restored back for street..

[onboost]

Oh, a couple of pics..

We have several benches, and fixtures that cover early 911 thru current 991..

[blue72s]

Originally Posted by Tom '74 911

I did some measuring with a digital angle finder and as far as I can tell, the 930 fixture is sloped about 3 degrees LESS to the rear than the 911 fixture. So if the shop drawings show the 911 point to be 3 degrees from level, I'd say the same 930 point is about flat...

That's the best I can do for you! My bench was not set up level, so my measurements were just relative...

Hope that helps

Hi Tom,

Sure that helps a lot and many thanks but just one last question if you don't mind - Is the hole perpendicular to the top flat surface of the 930 fixture?

Regards.