Anyone interested in getting a 911 repaired/checked on a Celette Repair Bench?

[RSTarga]

I don't understand why there are not more of these benches all over the country. I remember going to a MB dealership who had one, but it was basically being used as a tool rack. I asked why it was not in use and the body shop manager said that insurance usually did not cover the expense of mounting a car even if the chassis was bent.

[David Liam]

I agree with onboost, Celettes can be tricky to use, the really difficult part is knowing how pull on the 911, you have to know the car inside and out. You can do a lot of damage if you're not delicate. It's not like some old pickup truck frame you can anchor into and yank, the 911 is just sheet metal, it's tough to get a grip on it and it can be easily pierced or torn.

You have to fabricate custom "pulling fixtures" to get a grip. You also have to make a lot of different "bearing surface fixtures" to distribute the power of a pull and spread out the force over a large surface area.

The video below is great, shows the process, it's a factory Celette training/demonstration video. At the end, the guy smears seam sealer all over it, it looks terrible, kind of cracks me up. Overall great repair though.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=42UKWU88b7U

Also, the Wielander & Schill Vario Drill WS90 is the best tool in the world for taking these cars apart. Depth set drill, only goes though one layer of sheetmetal, very precisely, leaving the good stuff behind unharmed. He uses one in the above video and here's a few below of it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pWGWL6mBZ-Y
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9VVniLdF2u0

Below is another great way for breaking spot welds, the belt sander.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hvHiJQL7_9s

[David Liam]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A22MAIQ-xQ4

This is awesome too, Porsche Factory Restoration Shop footage, they have the old style fixtures with a cobra dozer.

(Pictures below, not embedded video, I don't know how do that)

[David Liam]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i0UfSVNC4cQ

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iB0tq6e5pWo

Couple more factory videos, the whole series is on youtube, it's pretty good.

[onboost]

Originally Posted by RSTarga

I don't understand why there are not more of these benches all over the country. I remember going to a MB dealership who had one, but it was basically being used as a tool rack. I asked why it was not in use and the body shop manager said that insurance usually did not cover the expense of mounting a car even if the chassis was bent.

They are quite an expensive piece of equipment to initially purchase and set-up properly with the jigs and fixtures, in addition to the other ancillary pieces needed to really do the required work. The bench and towers also take-up a lot of space when not in use. Some shops just wont make the investment required to purchase.. then of course their are the fixtures. If you are doing marque specific work, then you probably own your own fixtures.. for a shop that does multi-marque.. they may own some fixtures for their mainline product, and may have to lease the other fixtures which is an added expense and definitely creates wait time with regard to availability when needed, and shipping.

As for the Benz example, I kinda understand as they are a dealership. Between frequent model changes, and the overladen electronics in these cars.. they loose value very quickly. The insurance companies don't want to continue paying for post repair electronic issues that may occur due to a shaken "black-box" fractured fiber-optic etc.. so they tend to due less heavy structural repair where you would need a Cellette.

Originally Posted by David Liam

I agree with onboost, Celettes can be tricky to use, the really difficult part is knowing how pull on the 911, you have to know the car inside and out. You can do a lot of damage if you're not delicate. It's not like some old pickup truck frame you can anchor into and yank, the 911 is just sheet metal, it's tough to get a grip on it and it can be easily pierced or torn.

You have to fabricate custom "pulling fixtures" to get a grip. You also have to make a lot of different "bearing surface fixtures" to distribute the power of a pull and spread out the force over a large surface area.

Also, the Wielander & Schill Vario Drill WS90 is the best tool in the world for taking these cars apart. Depth set drill, only goes though one layer of sheetmetal, very precisely, leaving the good stuff behind unharmed. He uses one in the above video and here's a few below of it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pWGWL6mBZ-Y
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9VVniLdF2u0

Below is another great way for breaking spot welds, the belt sander.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hvHiJQL7_9s

David.. you are spot on with that assessment!

Love the WS90 and the mini belt sander.. they are invaluable!

I also like my old Spotle 902

[1979-930]

There was one of the Cellete benches and attachments for sale on Craigslist in Chico, CA (I think) for $6,000.00 a few months back.
I wished I had $6K to blow at the time. One of those tools you don't need but would love to have. Don't ask me why I think that way...

[David Liam]

One quick comment, I heard there are some Celette scams in Europe aimed at the US, so be careful if buying one from over there. Just a heads up.

[Kraftwerk]

Even if I had a complete Celette tool and all the parts . It would be way above my skill level to use it...

[sugarwood]

The crazy part for me is how someone would store this.
It takes the space of an entire car, so this is a major footprint.
It can't be cheap to own a Celette, even if you got it for free.
Such a low use tool, and such a high overhead of storage.

[onboost]

Originally Posted by sugarwood

The crazy part for me is how someone would store this.
It takes the space of an entire car, so this is a major footprint.
It can't be cheap to own a Celette, even if you got it for free.
Such a low use tool, and such a high overhead of storage.

I believe your point was previously discussed.

Further, why would one even consider owning a Cellette if you don't know how to use it, and/or you're not into restoration and/repair.. be it as a business or hobby?
It takes half a day to set-up a bench and get the car on it.. and you need a lift to do that.
Its not a tool for the casual garage poser or wanna-be car guy.. you buy-it, you use it, it earns its keep.

[Willem Fick]

Thanks for posting so much detail! Here's my design so far:

[r_towle]

David,
What town/city do you live in?
do you have the jigs for 356 and 914 also?

Rich

[1979-930]

Originally Posted by onboost

I believe your point was previously discussed.

Further, why would one even consider owning a Cellette if you don't know how to use it, and/or you're not into restoration and/repair.. be it as a business or hobby?
It takes half a day to set-up a bench and get the car on it.. and you need a lift to do that.
Its not a tool for the casual garage poser or wanna-be car guy.. you buy-it, you use it, it earns its keep.

Some people have disposable income for such tools. How much money do you need setting in a bank, stocks or ?

[David Liam]

Below is a before and after of a corroded/collision damaged '68 911 front end. It was hit (you can see wrinkles on the side wall) and severely corroded. I basically put a new nose on it one panel at a time, front pan, latch panel, inner front fender panel, lateral supports, etc. It is finished off with spot welds to look as factory correct as possible (you might have to zoom in to see them). The Celette helped a lot with this repair, it allowed me to pull the shock tower out (it was pushed in from the collision), and put the front pan in exactly the right spot. The car more or less had no nose at one point, so it's great knowing where to put the new one, just bolt it down. One interesting thing to note is that this particular '68 had a gas tank support panel with an elongated indentation under the battery tray. I noticed it while cutting it out and ordered the correct one. I was amazed someone made the correct panel for this year, I think it was only '64 and '68 with the elongated indentation, no idea why those two years.

Please get in touch with me if you are interested in this type of work.

[jjeffries]

Very nice indeed.

[Willem Fick]

Thanks in the main to the discussion here, I was able to design and put together a jig of my own (buying a Celette is just a bridge to far in my neck of the woods):



Having a proper jig makes a world of difference, even if all you want to do is check if a body is a straight as it seems!

Thanks for all the pictures and input guys!

[David Liam]

Willem, very cool, good job. You could attach some type of hydraulic pulling system to your bench. It looks pretty stout, you could pull some light collision damage. Trust me, you'll probably need hydraulics, I find that so many 911s have been hit.

[David Liam]

I have a few more before and after photos. This car car was pretty rough, floors, rockers, torsion tube area, the torsion tube itself was even changed. The spot welds finish off the repairs nicely, looks authentic. One of the photos shows the spot weld drill I mentioned a while back. It drills though the one layer you want to remove and leaves the host panel intact.

More or less everything in the after photos is new, floors, rockers, quarter panels, torsion tube area, etc.

Please get in touch with me if you have any Porsche 911 coachwork needs.

Several Celette repair benches with Celette dedicated 911 fixtures ('64-'89).

[Fixer]

Originally Posted by Willem Fick

Thanks in the main to the discussion here, I was able to design and put together a jig of my own (buying a Celette is just a bridge to far in my neck of the woods):



Having a proper jig makes a world of difference, even if all you want to do is check if a body is a straight as it seems!

Thanks for all the pictures and input guys!

I found a great deal on a Blackhawk bench with fixtures lightly used.:-)

[NICE 69 S]

Anyone care to chime in here about any Celette equipped shops in the Los Angeles area set up for work on early 911's?
Bob B