BEWARE Pelican's Slippery Sales Tactics

[EFullerton]

I just bought one of these 'OEM' Pedals a couple of weeks ago and it installed without a hitch in the '73. It was, in my view of good quality and actually was an improvement in design over the 36 year old unit that it replaced. The original had the hinge exposed so that it could rust and get corroded over the years. With the wear to the rubber and the corrosion, I decided to replace it. The new unit is encapsulated in the hinge area and may or may not have a metal hinge internally....this may not be a bad thing. I am in the process of installing an RS Carpet kit in the '73.

On thing is for sure, when I press on the 'loud' pedal, it works just fine!
Eric

[gizmofixer]

As a Porsche owner, a Pelican customer, a longtime service tech, a longtime parts guy, and an online parts website operator (website name omitted per forum policy), i feel compelled to offer my 'experienced' opinion:
It amazes me how customers can fail to read any information or policy pages and yet ASSUME their views and opinions should be part of MY company policy!
Folks, we are here to service your needs and keep you happy, we want your returning business. If you have a question, look in the policy postings. If you dont find the answer, just call or email.
If you have a problem, if you are unhappy, call us, we will fix it for you.
The Pelican site is one of the best, (as an operator i wish mine could be so good)
and the Pelican staff is as accomodating and helpful as humanly possible.
So folks, read, inform yourselves, and buy parts with confidence!

[crater64]

I've nothing of value to add to this thread, except to say that I'm glad to see what could have quickly become a very inflammatory discussion has been turned into an educational one.

Thanks to everyone involved: to Wayne for addressing customer concerns and clarifying parts supplier classifications, and to everyone else for raising those concerns.

The Syms discount clothing store chain's slogan, "An educated consumer is our best customer," could apply here as well.

[Rot 911]

I've been on this board almost 9 years and have never seen Wayne, or any of the other moderators, delete a thread that contained negative comments about Wayne or Pelican Parts. They are read, corrections made if needed, and we all move on.

[mike monde]

Interesting thread which started somewhat harsh IMO.
You learn something new everyday and this thread wins the award for today.
Wayne, thanks for clarifying and giving another example of why this is the best forum in our community.
Thanks

[Steveinatlanta]

Ah, the uninitiated.

Who among us has not blathered something on a web board, especially this one, without being fully informed technically. I wouldn't throw the first stone.

BUT SHAME ON YOU...

"Slimy" just doesn't apply anywhere.

It reminds me of a thread I read here a while back that started:

"Hey guys, who do you typically order parts from?".

Obviously, I have nothing relevant to add to this thread either.

Except that Wayne runs a services business - AND pulled off an extremely successful web board. That smells like a good businesss plan that he stuck to.

Well, I've written this nonsense. Instead of erasing it, I'm just going to include a picture.

[matt13421342]

I'm very happy that Wayne added a page of new information to the More Info section of the site. I think that amount of text is what was needed to clarify the parts business lingo that's tossed around regularly. The only thing I need to add is this. When I worked for a major vintage parts supplier (that was back in the days of mail order, before the internet) we made very clear distinctions between parts, and had two terms that covered everything we sold -- "OE" and "Aftermarket." It was much more clear then. We now have OEM, Original Supplier, Contracted by Porsche ... and the list goes on. I think parts resale industry has grown up and I haven't grown with it. Call me old but I don't see the need for all of these new terms. If it was made by Porsche (regardless of which factory made it) then it's OE. If it was made by anybody other than Porsche, it's Aftermarket. The way it's set up these days you have to read the fine print to see what you're getting.

Again, I'm glad this thread helped future parts buyers be in the know. I know many have said that slippery was too harsh a term, but without going into it for another 2000 words, I'll say that this has been an issue recognized by Pelican since 2007 and it's taken this long for any further changes to be made to the FAQ info.

[javadog]

I haven't had any issues understanding what Pelican sells. I happen to think that they do the best job of informing the customer what he/she may expect to receive. Nobody else does anything even close. Read into that what you will.

If you have paid attention the last few years, you will have noticed that things are changing in the industry. There will come a point in time when you can no longer buy what you want and you will be unhappy with the quality of some items, regardless of their source. Porsche shares part of the blame here and the "global economy" takes care of the rest.

I think you ought to consider editing some of your comments, particularly the thread title. Just my opinion, of course...

JR

[Porsche-O-Phile]

As usual, the customer service and explanation given here are top-rate.

I truly hope that everyone will see this as (yet another) example of how Pelican differs from your run-of-the-mill "parts pumper" out there. These guys really do care about their customer base and making sure they stand behind their business.

The Pelican business model has never been about "the sale" or the whole "coffee is for closers" inspired sales-figure-driven nonsense that so clearly dominates the thinking of most distributors (both brick-and-mortar and online). It has been about offering an ALTERNATIVE to a very limited, selective, often educated and (speaking only for myself) pretty fussy client base to the traditional approach.

If I've learned nothing else about Wayne and his crew it's that they really do care about "getting it right". Are they human? Sure. Do they make mistakes? Occasionally (but not this time). Give them the chance to make things right - they ALWAYS deliver.

[sc_rufctr]

This turned into a good thread with some interesting information.
But I feel I have to add something...

Why are some people here so concerned that some parts are now being made in China?

If the parts coming from China are of equal quality to the German made parts then what's the problem?

Some years ago I bought a new hood star for my old Mercedes... (Since been sold) That hood start was made in Turkey.
I was surprised when I first saw the "Made in Turkey" printed on the box box but it fitted perfect and looked great.

Porsche have to compete in a world market so they would be looking at ways to save money.
I don't agree that we should accept the shoddy Chinese made Porsche badge but if the Chinese made a good badge then I would be happy to use it.

What are the alternatives?

[dtw]

Originally Posted by matt13421342

If it was made by Porsche (regardless of which factory made it) then it's OE. If it was made by anybody other than Porsche, it's Aftermarket.

Porsche makes almost no, if any, parts. They are less a manufacturer so much as they are a designer and assembler of cars.

[javadog]

Originally Posted by sc_rufctr

Why are some people here so concerned that some parts are now being made in China?

If the parts coming from China are of equal quality to the German made parts then what's the problem?

I haven't seen an example of everything China has ever produced but, of the ones I have seen, none of them have been of high quality. For example, I recently repaired an electrical problem back at home. A Chinese-made capacitor lasted less than 24 hours. The USA made replacement that I finally found has had no problems yet in several weeks and the original capacitor lasted 12 years before failing. I could cite other examples, both car-related and not.

JR

[Formerly Steve Wilkinson]

I hate to say it, but the quality of some made-in-China parts is reaching the excellent level. Used to be, you could tell they were made in some dirt-floored village foundry, but that's no longer true of all of them.

Remember, we used to laugh at Japanese products in the 1950s and '60s, and if you're as old as I am, you'll remember the joke that the Japanese established a city named Usa, simply so they could stamp their products MADE IN USA. The Chinese are improving every facet of their lives pretty much as rapidly as the Japanese did post-WWII.

And as for Porsche not making any parts, ask most 996/997 owners who makes their car's gearbox and if they even know what a gearbox is, they'll probably tell you ZF or Getrag or the like. Wrong: Aisin, the Japanese company, manufactures 'em.

[Wavey]

I've been following this thread and biting my tongue, but I have to comment. Matt, I don't think Pelican has ever used "slippery sales tactics" or tried to "trick" you or anyone else. Your misundertanding is due to your own lack of knowledge about what the terms OEM, Genuine Porsche, etc. mean. I think you owe Pelican and Wayne an apology.

Regarding the country of origin, check out the Motronic DME that is currently listed in the Pelican classifieds. It's a new part which carries a Made in Germany label, yet the box is labeled Made in Spain. Where was it really manufactured? Was the warehouse selling that part trying to trick the buyer? I don't think so. It's just the international nature of the parts business, in fact nearly all manufacturing any more. A wholesaler could hardly go through the tens of thousands of parts they stock to verify the country of origin, or even the actual manufacturer. And even if they did, it could change tomorrow.

Final story - I was in the parts importing and distribution business for about ten years, mid-70's to mid-80's. We were the exclusive midwest distributor for Bosch, Lucas and Nipondenso at the time. We were owned by a much larger American parts distributor, so we also had access to the main American brands (Motorcraft, AC/Delco, etc.). We frequently had repair shops (not the foreign car specialists) insist on American parts for the foreign cars they were working on. So for example we'd ship a set of AC/Delco points or a distributor cap, for a VW, MG or Toyota. Guess what would be in the box. Bosch or Lucas or Nipondenso parts. It was the way of the world even then and it still is now, and no one is trying to trick you, nor can they possibly keep track of it all.

[CBRacerX]

Interesting information and a professional response from Pelican. I learned a few things that up to now had just been information gathered via empirical experiences. OP was off base with the tone of the post but the end result is a good one.

Nice job community and vendor.

[nickd]

There is another variation that wasn't explicitly mentioned: often times the "genuine" part you buy from Porsche is NOT the same as the ORIGINAL part that you are replacing. Very often, even Porsche's genuine part, is inferior to the original. The hood badge post above is a good confirmation of that.

Examples that I've come across often:

An updated part number- Porsche might conclude that a 996 hose is a close enough fit to a 964 hose even though they are different.

Whoever made your gas pedal in 1973 in Germany could no longer be in business. So another manufacturer comes in and "reproduces" them. Possibly then getting a contract with Porsche and the reproductions suddenly become "genuine".

It's often a gamble in the parts game. Another example is how I recently went through two different Bosch reconditioned alternators for my 964 before I found one that was close to being rebuilt correctly.

From every contact that I've had, Wayne & Pelican truly do strive for quality and satisfaction. Thankfully that business model seems working for them and we get the best parts available.

In response to the original post- OEM has been around as long as I can remember and it has always meant "aftermarket that is equal to or as close as the manufacture wants to get to original". Anyone who has a toolbox really should know this.

[tharbert]

Originally Posted by Formerly Steve Wilkinson

...And as for Porsche not making any parts, ask most 996/997 owners who makes their car's gearbox and if they even know what a gearbox is, they'll probably tell you ZF or Getrag or the like. Wrong: Aisin, the Japanese company, manufactures 'em.

Aisin has a manufacturing plant here in good old So Ill. I think they make rear ends for GMC and FMC but it's just as realistic that they could start assembling PAG stuff tomorrow. Point is, even the point or origin of the subassemblies can be obfuscated by today's manufacturing processes. The box should read "Made in USA by Japan With Cambodian electronics, Indian Firmware and Russian steel"

[Bobboloo]

Originally Posted by matt13421342

Call me old but I don't see the need for all of these new terms. If it was made by Porsche (regardless of which factory made it) then it's OE. If it was made by anybody other than Porsche, it's Aftermarket.

The different terms are there for you the buyer. They allow the buyer to differentiate from the parts available for them to buy.

It doesn't seem to me that you really understand the terminology yet.

Porsche is a manufacturer of cars. Bosch is a manufacturer of car parts. Porsche may manufacture some of it's parts or may contract them to another manufacturer. That manufacturer is the OEM (Original Equipment Manufacturer) for the parts they were contracted to make. The OEM part they make today may or may not be OE (Original Equipment), even if it is sold through a Porsche dealership with Porsche part numbers. How can that be?

Part manufacturers make a run of parts to fill an order. Years later when stock has depleted they may get another order for that part. If that part was redesigned for whatever reason, be it more cost effective, better engineering or supercession by later design, then the part is no longer OE for your car regardless of whether you buy it from Porsche or Pelican Parts. If that part was redesigned then the only way to get a new OE part is to buy a NOS (New Old Stock) item. That or convince the OEM to make another run of the out dated design.

[austin552]

Originally Posted by dtw

porsche makes almost no, if any, parts. They are less a manufacturer so much as they are a designer and assembler of cars.

bingo!

[Nine9six]

Slippery...Hmmm
I would not characterize Pelican marketing as slippery, based upon you not having knowledge of OEM v OE.
I do however applaud the moderators for not removing a somewhat bias statement that was predicated upon ignorance of the fact. Freedom of speech is alive at Pelican Parts!