Changing VIN

[wayner]

Interesting discussion. Lets take it a step further. How does the law apply to race cars vs cars registered for use on roadways?

Was it IMSA or Grand Am race sanctioning bodies that would recognize a car as production based if it were full tube steel and all new race components as long as the components fit within the rules and the A-pillar and roof were actual production sheet metal?

What about race regs that say you have to use the same chassis at each event (preventing specialized chassis for certain track configurations), and then the chassis is written off and needs to be replaced to continue the season?

I know these examples are somewhat apples and oranges (street vs track regs), but they both raise the question 'how much of the real car must be kept?

[euro911sc]

I was at Klubsport last year and they had just recieved a historic race car restoration project. The shell was on a rotiserie and stripped so you couls see all the weld marks. It was made from 2 different cars. Weld line was right between the shift tower and e-brake... Comment was, "all you need is the VIN plate to prove its that old race car..."

So... if you have a '72 with rusted out rear and an 87 with crushed front and you weld the two good halves together what is it? Front and rear clips are replaced all the time. Perfectly legal repair and can be titled as a '72 Repaired... then wash the title in some state that has crap for tracking and boom... all done.

How do the hot rod guys do it? Or do they care when their 54 chevy built on a merc frame running a ford engine is pulled over?

-Michael

[Danny_Ocean]

Not sure how/where this thread got off on a tangent re: "kit" cars. Original poster is dicussing two vehicles that were "born" with VIN's, not "kit cars" that must be assigned VIN's...

I think it is a big gray area (VIN swapping). Nothing illegal about piecing cars together. It happens all the time with more modern cars than ours.

[wayner]

The discussion still is about vins. The laws the kit car guys have pushed for apply to any home built or massively resurrected car such as one with a salvage title. That includes street rods and Porsche hot rods built from parts of more than one car.
(I assume if a vin has to be moved form one car to another the problem had something to do with decrepit chassis parts and not to cover up some wrong doing).

State assigned vins basically review the receipts and sources of parts to make sure they are legit, and then give a car a new starting point so that there is no future legal issue relating to where the components came from.

[Tilikum Turbo]

You had better contact the DMV with this plan...otherwise you could put a TON of work/time/money into a project to find its never going to be allowed to see the light of day legally on the road.

[Bobboloo]

I've read the California code before and my understanding is that you can build one car from two cars in the fashion you see as fit. You cannot tamper with a VIN i.e. grind it off or re-stamp. That is definitely illegal but there is nothing written about percentages of sheet metal belonging to which VIN etc. It just states that you need to be the owner of both cars that are to be used in the process.

In reading the code it seems to me that theft was the concern when it was written. Forgery didn't seem to be the concern. I'm sure there are laws dealing with forgery in the attempt to defraud one of ones money but doubt they are car specific.

Disclaimer:
I'm not a lawyer so this is not legal advise. I'm just stating how I understood what I read concerning this subject
You should look up the code, read it, and determine for yourself. People are eager to give their two cents on the board but nothing beats getting the info straight from the horses mouth. The horse in this case being the California Vehicle code.

P.S. No chassis should be left intact with it's VIN's missing so you should consider partitioning the bad chassis.

[Grady Clay]

From EarlyS

The start of "S" fraud......

“The start of "S" fraud...
Hi to all

I was looking on german ebay under porsche 1969 when I found this. I say its the start of some guy that will buy an S and find out when dash number is checked that it is really a T. Note to all never buy Porsche 911 69 S 119310557. Chassis plate obviously wrong or different??? .
http://cgi.ebay.de/Porsche-911-2-0S-...item1e5fab0bcc

Leon

Porsche 911 2,0S 1969 Fahrgestellnummer bei eBay.de: Oldtimer-Teile (endet 21.11.10 22:09:14 MEZ)
By ebay seller ‘911er-center’, 1147 sales, 99.8% positive.
I would like to see what else he sells.


So … if a 1969 911S Targa VIN 119310557 shows up, we know to look hard.

Best,
Grady

[Grady Clay]

Here is the image from the ebay adv.



Best,
Grady

[dad911]

Does anyone know enough german to report the ad to eBay fraud? They should pull the auction.

[ratpiper71T]

Does anyone know enough german to report the ad to eBay fraud? They should pull the auction.

+1. Or better yet to authorities. I wonder whether or not their actions are considered illegal. That is to say at face value selling these 'parts'. It should be. It's probably like drug paraphernalia, though, unfortunately. -unless used for fraud purposes, it's probably considered memorabilia...

[1990C4S]

Originally Posted by ratpiper71T

...... it's probably considered memorabilia...

It's perfectly legal. It's the buyer that will (possibly) be committing fraud.

Just like selling the maintenance books.

[Trackrash]

Here is the image from the ebay adv.



Best,
Grady

Now if you had the other two VIN plates and the title?