Another Boiling Battery Story

[JJ 911SC]

A hour and half in a PCA Coffee Run I start to smell something funny in the cabin (top open). I just started following a different car that had a new exhaust system and he had drop about 1 quarts of oil in his engine bay this morning, so I blame the smell on that.

After a stop, I was following somebody else and the smell remain.

At lunch time I open the trunk to get something and knew where the smell was from. I touch the battery and it was very hot.

Check the Voltage and its 13.2V. With the engine idling its about 13.7V

The cell were dry. I fill the cell and by leaving time the battery was luke warm.

I made a V line home at 3000RPM and less.

When I got home its boiling again but the cell are still covered and it smell. I check the voltage again and its 13.2V and 13.7V while idling but this time I notice some spike at 14.7V and 15.2V. No spikes had shown up previously.

So while I was hoping it was the battery, now with the last spikes reading, I'm thinking VR.

If its the VR, any reason why it would go that early in its life?


Here is the Tech info:

Battery: Excide Type 41-72 just over 30 months old.

Alternator: Paris Rhone 14 V 90A Reman alternator (look new) from from Eagle Auto Electric installed 2 weeks ago. It has run ok from day one and it did not smell.

By looking at the alternators are the VR swappable? I replace the old alternator (Valeo 14V 90A), while "I was in there"... because of noisy bearing.

Remanufactured



Old one

[ivangene]

so to paraphrase:

you bought a new alternator and regulator 2 weeks ago and this boiling is happening...take the thing back and get another one...its TU!

yea, they can die quick or be defective or have not replaced it with the rebuild if they cheaped out???

simple answer is sometimes the correct one

[Joe Bob]

I prefer a local rebuilder to do it right....cheapass remans only fix it enough to work.

[JJ 911SC]

Originally Posted by Joe Bob

I prefer a local rebuilder to do it right....cheapass remans only fix it enough to work.

JB

It came in a box lable New Alternator and it did look like one. Anyway its under warranty.

Below are this morning number. I came across one of your posting that mentioned "Over 15 volts the VR is bad. less that 13 the alt is toast." so I would think 14 is OK.

Maybe the VR go bunkers when hot or its the the battery goes bunker.
I rigged my "bought last year not yet installed" VDO guage so I’ll be able to monitor the battery voltage as I drive.

Cheers

JJ

Battery cold, engine not running

12.97 (meter on the 20 Volt range setting)
12.71 (meter on 12 Volt Bat Load setting)
A shade below the 13 Mark on VDO Analog gauge

Battery cold, keyed to ignition (all idiot lights ON, gauge energized)

12.64 (meter on the 20 Volt range setting)
12.58 (meter on 12 Volt Bat Load setting)
A shade below the 13 Mark on VDO Analog gauge

Battery cold, engine running @ 3000 RPM (all idiot lights OFF, gauge reading accordingly)
14.21 (meter on the 20 Volt range setting)
14.02 (meter on 12 Volt Bat Load setting)
A shade above 14 Mark on VDO Analog gauge

[Lorenfb]

Either a used regulator or a junk cheap regulator.
Buy an OEM Valeo regulator from Pelican!

[JJ 911SC]

I could use the Valeo VR from the one that came out wich was electrically OK but is 14.02 Volts overcharging?

I'll be test loading the battery this afternoon.

[Traveller]

Originally Posted by JJ 911SC

I came across one of your posting that mentioned "Over 15 volts the VR is bad.

Anything over 14.4V is too high. Flooded lead acid batteries gas at that voltage at 80 degrees F.

My battery sits at 14.1V while underway and that is a tad low for maximum battery life.

I can't overemphasize the usefulness of an on-board voltmeter. This one draws so little current, it can be wired directly to the battery (as they should be) for a true battery voltage reading. It is always-on, even with the ignition off...a glance while parked tells me what state my battery is in.

[Traveller]

Originally Posted by JJ 911SC

I could use the Valeo VR from the one that came out which was electrically OK but is 14.02 Volts overcharging?

That would not cause your battery to be overcharged and would not cause a "healthy" battery to gas.

[ivangene]

Bentley say 14.2 V is your max

it is true that a bad battery will cause the VR to try and overcome it...since you boiled it that might happen but the point is ...it boiled it so it seems it was already overcharging it

[Traveller]

Originally Posted by ivangene

Bentley say 14.2 V is your max.

At what temperature?

And at 32F, 14.2V would be far too low and at 120F it would be far too high.

[Lorenfb]

"I could use the Valeo VR from the one that came out wich was electrically OK but is 14.02 Volts ?"

The old reg may be intermittent and overcharge too.
Even if the reg is tested before installation and tests O.K., it still may overcharge.

Bottomline: Buy a cheap rebuilt alt, get a cheap junk regulator!
Buy a good new Valeo regulator from Pelican or be prepared to get
stuck in a remote location or have some car electronics fail.

[Traveller]

Originally Posted by Lorenfb

Even if the reg is tested before installation and tests O.K., it still may overcharge.

How, if it is set correctly?

[wwest]

Shorted battery cell. The VR is trying to charge the remaining 5 cells, 2.25V cells, to 13.5 volts.

[JJ 911SC]

OK Bad VR as diagnostic by a few of you

After 5 Min it went to 17.18

Thanks

[Lorenfb]

"How, if it is set correctly?"

A used regulator!

"Shorted battery cell. The VR is trying to charge the remaining 5 cells, 2.25V cells, to 13.5 volts."

Don't think so! The internal regulator has a high failure rate and more so for the cheap junk ones.

"Buy a cheap rebuilt alt, get a cheap junk regulator"

Most likely a used regulator, i.e. Look closely at the original
regulator and you'll notice that the rebuilt alt has a regulator
of same type which was just sandblasted with brushes replaced.
Also notice the reg insulation/wires which appear to have been
cleaned/blasted.

Typical Alternator Rebuilding Costs (for a good rebuilder):
1. regulator - $30
2. bearings - $15
3. rotor slip ring replacement - $10
4. diode replacements - $15
5. labor - $45
6. profit - $20

Total - $135 Retail Price -$270

[Targalid]

I got one of the Vector voltmeters from Amazon thanks to a recommendation by another Pelican. It plugs into the unused cigarette lighter and gives me battery voltage with key on and a running alternator output when the motor is running. It is easy to see while driving.
Amazon.com: Vector VEC008 Digital LCD Voltmeter, 12 Volt: Automotive

[Targalid]

I got one of the Vector voltmeters from Amazon thanks to a recommendation by another Pelican. It plugs into the unused cigarette lighter and gives me battery voltage with key on and a running alternator output when the motor is running. It is easy to see while driving. It helped me diagnose a bad voltage regulator.
Amazon.com: Vector VEC008 Digital LCD Voltmeter, 12 Volt: Automotive

[enzo1]

^^^cool, thanks!

[kidrock]

Originally Posted by ivangene

so to paraphrase:

you bought a new alternator and regulator 2 weeks ago and this boiling is happening...take the thing back and get another one...its TU!

"TU"....also known as "chi chi's arriba".

[JJ 911SC]

Half way there.

Just waiting for a NEW VR from ours host. They most have seen this coming as I got an "Appreciation gift..." earlier today.

Unfortunately if you own a Cab, you cannot (until being corrected) slide the alternator out toward the back enough because of the shock absorber bracket that remove about 1" of clearance (spend 1 hour trying it) so I had to take the air manifold off. Next step is to remove the shroud to gain access to the alternator.