Weltmeister rear suspension bushings - (inside)

[brighton911]

Need some guiding advice. I purchased a set of Weltmeister rear suspension bushing for the inside of the banana arms on my 86 911. See picture below. Now the bushings do not come or are designed for an internal sleeve so this means the through bolt is not being torqued down to anything solid, just the bushing material itself. The bushings have a built in "washer" but the assembled width of the arm and bushings is .100" less than the mounting "ears" so they must draw in that much to contact the bushings. I checked with Pelican tech support (thanks Bob T) and he has not installed these and suggested this forum. In my opinion, not having an internal sleeve makes these not a very safe prospect, am I missing something here? Anyone else have experience with these particulars ones? All input always appreciated.

[Chuck Moreland]

Do not use those bushings.

In addition to the legitimate issues you've identified, those bushings do not allow articulation on multiple axis as is required of that joint.

The axis of that joint changes with the alignment setting, and the bushing provides no means to accomodate the change - except to crush the very incompressible polyurethane. The result is binding.

Any car that is equipped with those bushings will be very difficult to align and will not have free suspension movement.

They are completely unsuited to the application and should be withdrawn from the market.

Use rubber bushings (as OEM) or monoballs for a high performance solution.

[Carrerax]

Damn, I also bought a set of those. Thanks Chuck! Also, looking forward to getting my front A arm bushings from you.

[brighton911]

Thanks for the advice Chuck. I should have mentioned there are some really fine PB bushing going in front and rear, maybe you know the company that makes them (just funnin ya)! Needless to say, the Weltmeister bushings are not going in my car. Now to work on a return of parts not needed or wanted.

[The frenchi]

Hi,

Instead of welmeister there is:

Pelican Parts - Product Information: 901-331-059-00-M253


Anyone know ?

Is this quality parts ?

[88911coupe]

Crap...have the same ones sitting here on my desk as well. Glad they are cheap...maybe I can use them for something else...
At least I didn't install them and find out they are useless, UNLIKE my little project on installing the spring plate bushings.
EDIT...useless is the wrong term, noisy PITA is more accurate.

[BK911]

I have about 20 track weekends on mine with no problems. Guess I am lucky.

[The frenchi]

Thank for your answers !!

But quality or not ??

Can I buy them ?

[euro911sc]

Those are fine Frenchi. They are the OEM ones and rubber which allow the movement Chuck is referring to.

-Michael

[The frenchi]

Ok but there is a big difference about price 22.75$ for this, against 47,50$ for OEM parts why?

[RWebb]

for the same reason that a wonderful chicken from Bresse costs more than some factory-farmed hunk of tasteless, contaminated meat from elsewhere

Quality costs more

[zippy_gg]

Originally Posted by The frenchi

Ok but there is a big difference about price 22.75$ for this, against 47,50$ for OEM parts why?

Because these are URO, and personally I would stay away from anything URO. Go OEM if you want or check out the Elephant Racing site for more options.

[proffighter]

Originally Posted by The frenchi

Hi,

Instead of welmeister there is:

Pelican Parts - Product Information: 901-331-059-00-M253


Anyone know ?

Is this quality parts ?

This is not the right one. This one is for the trailing arm inner end near tranny...

[proffighter]

Originally Posted by Chuck Moreland

Do not use those bushings.

In addition to the legitimate issues you've identified, those bushings do not allow articulation on multiple axis as is required of that joint.

The axis of that joint changes with the alignment setting, and the bushing provides no means to accomodate the change - except to crush the very incompressible polyurethane. The result is binding.

Any car that is equipped with those bushings will be very difficult to align and will not have free suspension movement.

They are completely unsuited to the application and should be withdrawn from the market.

Use rubber bushings (as OEM) or monoballs for a high performance solution.

Chuck

I agree 100%, but I wonder that there are even worse (under this point of view) products like ER polybronze or needle bearings

[safe]

Originally Posted by proffighter

This is not the right one. This one is for the trailing arm inner end near tranny...

You missunderstand, the bushing at the top is for the "trailing arm inner end near tranny".

Originally Posted by proffighter

Chuck

I agree 100%, but I wonder that there are even worse (under this point of view) products like ER polybronze or needle bearings

The bushing you are thinking of is only a 1-axis joint, Polybronz work perfect there.

[Targa Time]

Sometimes I think you guys sweat the details too much. I installed a complete set of Weltmeister bushings, front and rear 15 years ago. After 25,000 miles the only issue I have had is having to lube the bushings every 5 years. And by the way the handling was much improved over the beat down rubber OEM bushing.

[proffighter]

Originally Posted by safe

You missunderstand, the bushing at the top is for the "trailing arm inner end near tranny".

You're right... Sorry

The bushing you are thinking of is only a 1-axis joint, Polybronz work perfect there.

Wrong!! As the hub travel describes an arc, the outer bearing cannot be a 1-axis joint. Just look lift your 911 and look at it from behind: A lot of positive camber. This would not be possible, when travel would be straight

PS: But Polybronze works fine, yes. In thise case the spring plates are bending and compensates the angle

[safe]

Originally Posted by proffighter

Wrong!! As the hub travel describes an arc, the outer bearing cannot be a 1-axis joint. Just look lift your 911 and look at it from behind: A lot of positive camber. This would not be possible, when travel would be straight

PS: But Polybronze works fine, yes. In thise case the spring plates are bending and compensates the angle

I think the spring plate is designed to handle this deflection, but hopefully Chuck can add some wisdom about that.

[proffighter]

Originally Posted by safe

I think the spring plate is designed to handle this deflection

Correct.

To confirm, here you can see that the wheel/hub is making a 3-axis movement

[Flieger]

The spring plate is designed to twist, even with the rubber bushings. The torsion bar is meant to stay straight so the polybronze helps there over the rubber.