Thinking of removing my roll cage

[Dan Morton]

I purchased my '95 about a year ago and I drive the car to work 1-2 days per week, otherwise it's just a weekend toy. I don't plan to do DE's or any trackwork with the car so I'm considering removing the cage entirely or perhaps just the front half leaving the rear hoop in place.

The roll cage appears to be done very well (welded in) and was installed back in '96 for whatever that's worth

My real reason for removing the front half is to avoid head injuries in the event of an accident.

I'm wondering if I leave the rear hoop, will it be a big risk for head injuries given it's distance from the seats?

Also, I'm interested in thoughts regarding tools and methods to removing the cage.

Thanks!
--Dan



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[Catorce]

That cage the way it is amounts to certain death in the event of an otherwise survivable accident. I own a full race car as well with a cage, but it doesn't have a full interior (obviously) and when I am belted in with my helmet and hans device on in my race seat with my fire suppression system armed, I am safer than you are in your street car. So I get what you are after.

Sure they did a good job of putting it in, but I can't fathom the full interior part, which is going to make it a ***** to remove.

The uprights by the dash are pretty easy to cut with a sawzall, but then they need to be ground flat, and for that, most if not all the material is going to need to be removed. The rest is easily done with an air powered cutoff wheel, but again, the interior will suffer if you leave it in the car.

I personally would not leave the rear hoop in. You will miss the torsional rigidity that the cage is now giving you, but there is no good way to plug the holes from the roof bars in the hoop without again, wrecking the interior.

I'd start with removing all of the interior possible, and masking the rest with heavy plastiv before going to town with air powered tools.

Tons of work!

[Maxhouse97]

Do know what the rest of the car is, but it might be better to sell it and get another. The right person may pay for a cage like that, and you don't have to do all the work.

[TCracingCA]

Is it padded? And I would lower the seat, as long as you can still see!

[Cory M]

I've done it. It's messy and time consuming but can be done. The biggest issue will be protecting your interior and glass from all of the sparks. You'll want to remove any interior bits that are in the line of fire, including the carpet. There will be a ton of metal dust so you'll want to wear a mask, cover up vent holes, etc. You could just remove the front of the cage but it will be hard to do without damaging the headliner, you would want to remove the quarterglass for better access and protection. Dirty job, not very fun, but do-able.

If you don't remove it you should get some proper SFI/FIA approved padding for safety. Take a look at racecars like the GT3 cup to see where to attach it.

[Dan Morton]

Originally Posted by Catorce

That cage the way it is amounts to certain death in the event of an otherwise survivable accident. I own a full race car as well with a cage, but it doesn't have a full interior (obviously) and when I am belted in with my helmet and hans device on in my race seat with my fire suppression system armed, I am safer than you are in your street car. So I get what you are after.

Sure they did a good job of putting it in, but I can't fathom the full interior part, which is going to make it a ***** to remove.

The uprights by the dash are pretty easy to cut with a sawzall, but then they need to be ground flat, and for that, most if not all the material is going to need to be removed. The rest is easily done with an air powered cutoff wheel, but again, the interior will suffer if you leave it in the car.

I personally would not leave the rear hoop in. You will miss the torsional rigidity that the cage is now giving you, but there is no good way to plug the holes from the roof bars in the hoop without again, wrecking the interior.

I'd start with removing all of the interior possible, and masking the rest with heavy plastiv before going to town with air powered tools.

Tons of work!

Thanks so much for your thoughts and I agree with you 100%!

[Dan Morton]

Originally Posted by TCracingCA

Is it padded? And I would lower the seat, as long as you can still see!

I don't currently have any padding. I will most likely remove the cage so won't invest in the padding at this time.

Thanks!

[Dan Morton]

Originally Posted by Maxhouse97

Do know what the rest of the car is, but it might be better to sell it and get another. The right person may pay for a cage like that, and you don't have to do all the work.

I've considered that too. The car is in really nice shape and has had a lot of money put into it from the previous owners that will still be a benefit as a street car.

Thanks

[Dan Morton]

Originally Posted by Cory M

I've done it. It's messy and time consuming but can be done. The biggest issue will be protecting your interior and glass from all of the sparks. You'll want to remove any interior bits that are in the line of fire, including the carpet. There will be a ton of metal dust so you'll want to wear a mask, cover up vent holes, etc. You could just remove the front of the cage but it will be hard to do without damaging the headliner, you would want to remove the quarterglass for better access and protection. Dirty job, not very fun, but do-able.

If you don't remove it you should get some proper SFI/FIA approved padding for safety. Take a look at racecars like the GT3 cup to see where to attach it.

Thanks for the tips regarding the padding and removal of the cage.

I'm not looking forward to the project at all but it will definitely make me feel more at ease driving it. Plus I can put back the lower dash and door pockets which haven't been used since 1996!

[sugarwood]

Originally Posted by Catorce

That cage the way it is amounts to certain death in the event of an otherwise survivable accident.

Can you explain why?

[Cook&Dunning]

I've done it. It's messy and time consuming but can be done. The biggest issue will be protecting your interior and glass from all of the sparks. You'll want to remove any interior bits that are in the line of fire, including the carpet. There will be a ton of metal dust so you'll want to wear a mask, cover up vent holes, etc. You could just remove the front of the cage but it will be hard to do without damaging the headliner, you would want to remove the quarterglass for better access and protection. Dirty job, not very fun, but do-able.

This is great advice. I pulled the roll cage from my 89 track car. I had gutted the interior, but grinding down the door sill mounts - look the same as you have - I managed to catch fire the sound insulation / padding. Scary couple of minutes - thankfully all ended well. Make sure you have a fire extinguisher nearby, and maybe a ready to go garden hose for worst case.

I also managed to trash the passenger window with flying sparks. Live and learn.

[Catorce]

Originally Posted by sugarwood

Can you explain why?

Sure. Take a simple rear end accident where your caged car is hit from behind by another vehicle. On the street, with a normal vehicle, if you get hit hard from behind you open yourself up to serious neck injuries and that sort of thing from the impact. Mostly, and this is unscientific, mind you, people will survive a hard rear impact even though they are injured.

Same thing happens in your caged car. Because you are not wearing a harness like you would in a race car, and because you don't have a helmet, you open yourself up to your head making contact with the roll cage, which could result in anything from a skull fracture to a tbi, all the way to death.

I am going to call upon you to use your imagination as to what happens when you have:

1. A folding, not fixed seat like in most non-race cars.
2. Retractable seat belts, not fixed length harnesses.
3. No helmet
4. A piece of metal inches form your head.

I think you get the idea. In my opinion - it is just my opinion - driving in a car with a full cage when you lack the appropriate safety gear raises your chance of dying from an otherwise survivable accident.

Just my $0.02.

I wouldn't even ride in that car on the street as a passenger.

[Dan Morton]

After searching a lot of other sites, there are plenty of stories about how much the body travels even when using a properly mounted 5 pt harness, helmet, cage, etc. I am definitely going to remove the entire cage.

[Flojo]

may swapping the car to a non-caged car an option?
my thaughts: a lot of work will be needed and you'll need new interior parts to fill the holes where the cage ends sat.
maybe someone is cage-jelous and envies your car?
you could sell/swap it as is and get an untouched one instead.

(in the pack I see an other 911, so you wont be prived of one during your search)

[sugarwood]

Ok, so the danger is that your body can just smash into the roll cage.

[Dan Morton]

Originally Posted by Flojo

may swapping the car to a non-caged car an option?
my thaughts: a lot of work will be needed and you'll need new interior parts to fill the holes where the cage ends sat.
maybe someone is cage-jelous and envies your car?
you could sell/swap it as is and get an untouched one instead.

(in the pack I see an other 911, so you wont be prived of one during your search)

Yes that is definitely a possibility. I do agree that the effort will be great and there will be added expense with replacing carpeting however I really like all of the other aspects of the the car which would be much greater to replace unless I found just the right car.

For example, this car has < 50,000 miles. It's had the top engine rebuilt ($15k), Fiske wheels which I like, Chip, Loud exhaust (I like that too!), Upgraded suspension ($3k). And the price was adjusted down to compensate for the roll cage so I have room to spend money and not go upside down.

I'm not sure there is a big enough group of buyers looking to buy a 993 for the track anymore and if there was it would take a while to find them and then I might not get the price I would like for the car......

[Dan Morton]

Originally Posted by sugarwood

Ok, so the danger is that your body can just smash into the roll cage.

Yes but I think it's more about my head hitting one of the bars which would ruin my day for sure

[porsche930dude]

not that hard plan your attack so theres minimal cuts get as much as you can with a sawzall or air hack saw to minimize the sparks flying. Once the bars are out then its easy to get the areas clear, grind down the bases with an air grinder they make alot less sparks than electric ones. I cant believe you guys suggesting he sell the car.

[dad911]

What 930 dude said. With a sawzall I could have it out in a few hours, at least enough to be safe.

And here is another vote for removal. In the 'early days' of track events, I had an incident at bridehampton. 6 point harnesses, cage, but std seats. Wasn't a hard hit, but my helmet hit the windshield.

I wouldn't drive that car with a cage, and standard seats/belts any further than my mailbox.

[Dan Morton]

Thanks for the additional input guys.

I know it will take time to remove the cage and money to replace the carpet but most likely less time than to sell and buy another car and then empty my wallet on unknown repairs