4.0 N/A 500hp 9000rpm Mezger by Williams F1

[Cook&Dunning]

That engine is an amazing piece of mechanical art and design. Does anyone else besides me have a bit of a problem with the bolt on / bonded RWB look of the rear fenders shown in all the pics? The rear fenders on current Singers are works of art. Do pics indicate wider tires/wheelbase are needed to handle the power increase?

[JacobS911]

Originally Posted by Cook&Dunning

That engine is an amazing piece of mechanical art and design. Does anyone else besides me have a bit of a problem with the bolt on / bonded RWB look of the rear fenders shown in all the pics? The rear fenders on current Singers are works of art. Do pics indicate wider tires/wheelbase are needed to handle the power increase?

Porsche did it first. I'm ok with it, and hope they offer a package like that. I'm not a huge rwb fan, but I think singer will make bolt on flares look really sexy and not overly ricey as the rwb cars look. I would guess the rear will need some wide rubber to put that power to good use.

[Cook&Dunning]

I agree the 934 is cool, but for me the Singer style is way more.

[FrenchToast]

Originally Posted by sc

Carbon Quarters...Hmmmmm.......
I wonder if it will have a Carbon Chassis like the New Ruf CTR

The 'existing' Singer quarters are already CF.

It won't have a carbon chassis. Perhaps some suspension components, but a carbon chassis would require them to become an actual vehicle manufacturer (kit car even), which to my knowledge they are not.

I know RUF uses the quarter intakes on the new CTR. I wonder if they pitched them so that water drains out when in rain or spraying.

I'm skeptical of the exhaust coming so high up into where the oil tank normally is, but on both sides. Seems like it would be a major heat problem especially with a 180-degree bend.

[jamesjedi]

There were some 968's and 993 RSR's that had them as well.

[Ouzo12]

Originally Posted by jamesjedi

Four valves? Perhaps it is liquid cooled?

Not sure how they keep it cool.

I think the 935 had liquid cooled heads?

Maybe liquid cooled heads help explain how they can keep that badass exhaust and have heat for the multi millionaires that demand it ; ).

Bet that motor alone carries a comfortable six figure price on the options list....

[theiceman]

Originally Posted by rickinlodi

Some dude in Dubai just placed another order I'm sure.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Not quite. More like Minnesota.
Check out the guys garage that consigned it

http://www.vaultgarage.com/news/vault-designed-furnished-garage-in-minnesota-appears-in-robb-report/

[Canada Kev]

Originally Posted by sc

Love the air intake via the side windows!

I wonder how effective "ram air" intakes in that location would be. Didn't Ruf try intakes in the fender tops right below there for the intercoolers on the Yellow Bird? The first examples had them but then they were dropped due to low pressure in that area and low air flow. Maybe the rear of the window has enough pressure compared to the fenders to add some extra air flow.

[Antonov]

From what I understand, this is only the tip of the iceberg. There is a chassis (much like the new RUF) to go along with this engine, and word is its bonkers. Heaps of aero, roughly 2000lbs or perhaps less. Also expect the actual HP figures to be well clear of 500HP, more like 500 on a chassis dyno.

From what I understand, the engine will remain aircooled as in no watercooled heads.

As far as what they did to keep the cylinder head temps in check, there are incremental changes to many of the systems, martials changes, but the big news is in the combustion system. Stay tuned.

[Steve@Rennsport]

Originally Posted by Antonov

Also expect the actual HP figures to be well clear of 500HP, more like 500 on a chassis dyno.

They announced 500 BHP and that means as measured on an engine dyno (flywheel).

Many steep challenges to doing that, especially on pump gasolines.

[Antonov]

Absolutely.

Originally Posted by Steve@Rennsport

Many steep challenges to doing that, especially on pump gasolines.

[Turboo934]

[sc_rufctr]

Originally Posted by Antonov

From what I understand, this is only the tip of the iceberg. There is a chassis (much like the new RUF) to go along with this engine, and word is its bonkers. Heaps of aero, roughly 2000lbs or perhaps less. Also expect the actual HP figures to be well clear of 500HP, more like 500 on a chassis dyno.

From what I understand, the engine will remain aircooled as in no watercooled heads.

As far as what they did to keep the cylinder head temps in check, there are incremental changes to many of the systems, martials changes, but the big news is in the combustion system. Stay tuned.

Looking at this head I'd say it's water cooled. We'll find out for sure soon enough.

[Pesch]

It look to me more like an artistic rendering of the project at an early phase.
A lot of details are questionable...

I understand that they get support of Mezger the man himself, that is well aware of the issue to cool the heads, Porsche went water-cooling with the 4 valves heads for a reason.
Williams may be well versed with F1 technology, building an aircooled engine might for sure represent a challenge.

Enlarging the fan, and targeting 9000 rpm while still having an overdrive pulley ratio is the opposite of every factory evolutions.
I would expect a more efficient system based on optimized oil cooling and a fan as small as possible.

The timing chain seems also to still drive a single sprocket, while it's not uncommon, I dont see much space for the required gears to drive the 2 camshafts per sides.

Exhaust primaries are just huge even compared to the most extreme racing engines.

Starting with a now hard to find 964 case seems also not the easiest route while Porsche are still producing Mezger short blocs for the GT3 cup.

I salute the project and look forward to see it coming to life, but for now, I believe that this rendering have mostly been disclosed for advertisement purpose

[Elombard]

Looking back at the original specs in the first post it mentions upper and lower injectors. I wonder if that references direct injection on the lower side and more standard intake manifold injection on the top. I read recently how a 2 phase injection scheme with direct injection, among other things dramatically cools the A/F charge. Could this help keep things cool enough? I still would not be surprised if the heads are water cooled.

I would not be surprised if Singer dipped into some sort of building its own chassis. There is not that many 964 chassis out there and they are getting really expensive.

I think the exhaust primaries look so big because the entire system is double wall to keep noise and heat at a minimum.

[Quicksilver]

Originally Posted by jamesjedi

Four valves? Perhaps it is liquid cooled?

Not sure how they keep it cool.

I think the 935 had liquid cooled heads?

Exactly! Putting 4 valves in removes the area that can be used for cooling fins which is why they started with water cooling for just the heads as the development of the 911 motor progressed.
More HP means more heat. + Heat builds in the heads. + Whole top of the cylinder head has limited cooling = Aluminum puddle in your top end.
Where did they change the formula that Porsche didn't see?


They mention dual oil circuits and my only guess is an oil circuit just for getting heat out of the head? It could work but oil is not the most efficient way of transporting and dispersing heat.
(Water is actually shockingly efficient at heat storage and it is easy to transfer heat to and from water.)

[Tremelune]

Originally Posted by Elombard

I think the exhaust primaries look so big because the entire system is double wall to keep noise and heat at a minimum.

How common is this? I've never seen it done on another car. I...want this.

Here's an "air gap" pipe, but it doesn't seem to do any muffling, just thermal control (primarily for catalytic converter efficiency):

http://www.walkerexhaust.com/products/pipes-tubing/air-gap-pipe

[flashgordon64]

Check it out. Just as the title says. Better have deep pockets guys

Singer Creates New 500HP Porsche Engine With The Kind Help Of Williams

[sc]

Yep...
New Tread started yesterday......
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/porsche-911-technical-forum/965910-4-0-n-500hp-9000rpm-mezger-williams-f1.html

[flashgordon64]

My bad, late to the party lol