my low budget dream car build

[MFX]

I had no end of issues fitting my windscreen the first time. I had bought a German made seal (possibly URO I can't remember) and I spent at least a whole day all up trying to fit it. I ended up ordering a genuine seal from Porsche and it went in first time.

As a note. That original windscreen later got a crack so I got it replaced under insurance and I told them it was a 993 windscreen hoping they would get new 993 trims and glue it in. They didn't, they just used my same rubber and trim as the 993 windscreen is exactly the same size (just has the tint at the top and the inbuilt antenna).

All this to say that I am still not happy with the old style rubber. I hit a huge pot hole and it has since kept popping out a 6" section on one side at the top. I plan on getting the 993 trims and gluing the thing in. Amongst other things, gluing it in actually greatly increases the chassis rigidity.

[chrisbalich]

Originally Posted by MFX

I had no end of issues fitting my windscreen the first time. I had bought a German made seal (possibly URO I can't remember) and I spent at least a whole day all up trying to fit it. I ended up ordering a genuine seal from Porsche and it went in first time.

As a note. That original windscreen later got a crack so I got it replaced under insurance and I told them it was a 993 windscreen hoping they would get new 993 trims and glue it in. They didn't, they just used my same rubber and trim as the 993 windscreen is exactly the same size (just has the tint at the top and the inbuilt antenna).

All this to say that I am still not happy with the old style rubber. I hit a huge pot hole and it has since kept popping out a 6" section on one side at the top. I plan on getting the 993 trims and gluing the thing in. Amongst other things, gluing it in actually greatly increases the chassis rigidity.

My friend Kevin came over Saturday and we finessed the window into place in <45 minutes. I then tapped the seal with a plastic trim tool all the way around it 3-4 times just to be certain it's seated correctly. I'm still not in love with the way it sits at the very top, but it's in and it hasn't popped out in the ensuing 70 miles of test-driving. I'll keep an eye on it and report back if it does anything hinky in the coming weeks.

The old URO seal was totally stretched out. That's why it wouldn't go in. The gap between the ends of the aluminum trim is now 1/3 of what it was. These seals are cheap and work pretty well, but they don't hold up to reuse. If you use one, you have to replace it every time you pull the window.

[Focker]

Glad to hear it worked out CB.

[MFX]

Great to hear. It is those type of things that are meant to be simple that really make you tear your hair out.

[chrisbalich]

Originally Posted by MFX

Great to hear. It is those type of things that are meant to be simple that really make you tear your hair out.

Jeff, I have lined up rides in modern Caymans for the next time the LBDC drives me to insanity. I'd like a Cayman to be an addition, but I'm not above it being a replacement.

[Focker]

Originally Posted by chrisbalich

Jeff, I have lined up rides in modern Caymans for the next time the LBDC drives me to insanity. I'd like a Cayman to be an addition, but I'm not above it being a replacement.

My dad has a 2014 Cayman S with PDK. What a wonderful car.

[chrisbalich]

Originally Posted by Focker

My dad has a 2014 Cayman S with PDK. What a wonderful car.

If/When I get to the point where I can either afford a second Porsche, or I move on from the LBDC, this is pretty much exactly what I'm thinking of. Early 981 S with a PDK.
Sign me up.

But the LBDC has been behaving since I installed the windscreen. So our time together continues.
Hell, I may even install the tires I have here for it.

[lateapex911]

My only experience is with my 73. I had it out to weld up some self fabricated lower corners that were eaten by rust, then I sprayed the whole car. It's been awhile, but I got it out by myself (I was SO nervous that I'd break the glass) and put it in with the OE seal, at that point it was 20 yrs old.
I used lots of soapy water and a 14Ga wire ....did it by myself.

One thing I recall was the corners were an area of concern, and the metal trim that fits in needs to be the right radius and properly lined up. I used a rounded wood tool I made with a mallet to get the trim to curve right.

I can see the frustration, it's a nerve wracking job.

Has there been any rust repair on the common rot areas of the lower corners ot anything that could change the opening flange size?

[chrisbalich]

There has been no rust (or rust repair) in/on the windscreen opening/flange.
The car was remarkably solid when I collected it and I've been pretty enthusiastic about ensuring that status remains.

[MFX]

Originally Posted by chrisbalich

Jeff, I have lined up rides in modern Caymans for the next time the LBDC drives me to insanity. I'd like a Cayman to be an addition, but I'm not above it being a replacement.

The first Porsche I bought, just before my current orange car, was a 987 Cayman S manual. I absolutely loved it. Unfortunately my time with it was cut short (only had it 3 months) because I discovered it had scored bores. I would absolutely have one again.

I definitely get frustrated with the old air-cooled car sometimes. Particularly when I go on long road trips. I get jealous of how comfortable the newer stuff is, but when the roads get fun those thoughts are out the window

[chrisbalich]

Originally Posted by MFX

The first Porsche I bought, just before my current orange car, was a 987 Cayman S manual. I absolutely loved it. Unfortunately my time with it was cut short (only had it 3 months) because I discovered it had scored bores. I would absolutely have one again.

I definitely get frustrated with the old air-cooled car sometimes. Particularly when I go on long road trips. I get jealous of how comfortable the newer stuff is, but when the roads get fun those thoughts are out the window

I've been giving a lot of thought to devising ways to make my car more comfortable on long roadtrips. I have a few ideas borrowed from various builds that I'm going to employ as time and funds allow.
I find I'm willing to give a little ground on weight to improve the car's functionality. So don't be surprised when I add 20lbs more to the car in an effort to make it a better version of itself. (to be followed shortly thereafter with a lightweight battery or lopping off some superfluous parts)

P.S. I've put another couple hundred miles on it and, lo, the windscreen remains.

[PeteKz]

Seats are the biggie. Some years ago, I was a planning to substitute sport seats for my OE comfort seats in my 1973, but then decided to keep it looking like it was, and rebuilt those. They are so much more satisfying for 99% of the driving I do.

After that, noise reduction. Lots you can do here, but I think the most important is eliminating all the wind noises you can find, because they all add up to a fairly uncomfortable amount of mid- to high-frequency cabin noise. Highest on this list is closing the gaps around the door and window frames. Obviously make sure the door seals are in good shape and making contact ll the way around. In particular, make are there are no gaps at the front of the door where the window frame joins the door. Later models have a small plastic fairing intros gap to smooth it out and let the seal make even contact. If your car doesn't have those, buy them or fabricate something. If you took out the sound-deadening padding in the back and bottom of the car, put that back or install Dynamat or something similar.

HINT: You can use painter's tape or something like that to temporarily seal various gaps and see/hear how much difference those make. You can also lay out and tape in place a bunch of heavy blankets in the back of the car to see if that reduces engine noise before pulling everything apart to install sound deadening.

The seal around the hood prevents air and noise coming into the frunk and then into the cabin, so make sure that seals all around. Bonus: It will keep the crap you store up front dry, and help your heat or AC keep the cabin temps comfortable. Make sure all the grommets in the front panel and inner fenders are tight.

Basically, it's about paying attention to a bunch of little things that add up, not one or two big things.

[MFX]

Sound deadening is often the first thing that gets ditched when people are trying to save weight, but a really loud car really wears you down on long trips.
So many people think I am nuts, that I want to quiet down my ITB's. The noise is amazing when I am on it in the tiwisties and that never gets old, but the constant intake drone on the highway gets old FAST.

[AG81]

Originally Posted by chrisbalich

I find I'm willing to give a little ground on weight to improve the car's functionality. So don't be surprised when I add 20lbs more to the car in an effort to make it a better version of itself. (to be followed shortly thereafter with a lightweight battery or lopping off some superfluous parts)

I haven't been stuck in mine more than about 2 hours Chris. I am on the same page however. 2 hr's is about my limit in this car. 5-6 hours in a car with all the creature comforts. I found the drone of my original exhaust (loved it on short trips) was the worst. Fixed that with a new exhaust system. I did go with the light battery and it has been trouble free since 2017. I am not sure I'll ever be in a situation where I can get a classic car, of any kind, comfortable enough for a 5-6 hr trip.

Good Luck with that......

[Showdown]

Noise canceling Bluetooth headphones make all the difference once points of contact have been upgraded like seats, pedals, steering wheel, etc…

[Mixed76]

My 76 is very comfortable with stock suspension, stock seats, stock 78SC exhaust, and all original sound deadening materials in place. All it lacks for driving comfort is cruise control and a wheel that's a bit closer to the driver.

Leans about the same as a new Miata in turns, weighs ~2550#

Sent from my Pixel 7 using Tapatalk

[ryans65]

I've had my e30 bmw for almost 20 years, at one point it was an auto cross/ track day sorta car with two seats and a steering wheel. I stubbornly drove it with two fixed back seats for a number of years until I couldn't bear the noise, vibration and harshness any longer. I collected a nice black interior for it along with some leather sport seats and never looked back. I still rock the harness bar/ roll bar but aside from that it's stock inside, quiet and comfortable even on long road trips. The wanna be race car look is ok around town but it just got old after a while ..... that's what I'm getting at lol. I do like your car and commitment to weight savings though.

[chrisbalich]

Originally Posted by PeteKz

Seats are the biggie. Some years ago, I was a planning to substitute sport seats for my OE comfort seats in my 1973, but then decided to keep it looking like it was, and rebuilt those. They are so much more satisfying for 99% of the driving I do.

After that, noise reduction. Lots you can do here, but I think the most important is eliminating all the wind noises you can find, because they all add up to a fairly uncomfortable amount of mid- to high-frequency cabin noise. Highest on this list is closing the gaps around the door and window frames. Obviously make sure the door seals are in good shape and making contact ll the way around. In particular, make are there are no gaps at the front of the door where the window frame joins the door. Later models have a small plastic fairing intros gap to smooth it out and let the seal make even contact. If your car doesn't have those, buy them or fabricate something. If you took out the sound-deadening padding in the back and bottom of the car, put that back or install Dynamat or something similar.

HINT: You can use painter's tape or something like that to temporarily seal various gaps and see/hear how much difference those make. You can also lay out and tape in place a bunch of heavy blankets in the back of the car to see if that reduces engine noise before pulling everything apart to install sound deadening.

The seal around the hood prevents air and noise coming into the frunk and then into the cabin, so make sure that seals all around. Bonus: It will keep the crap you store up front dry, and help your heat or AC keep the cabin temps comfortable. Make sure all the grommets in the front panel and inner fenders are tight.

Basically, it's about paying attention to a bunch of little things that add up, not one or two big things.

I agree that seating position is vastly overlooked when considering the (dis)comfort of a sports car. My Sparcos are more comfortable than the stock seats in Kelly's A3...and not by a little. They will get wrapped in leather at some point, but they're not the problem.
The wind noise is the biggest problem I have. The new (Borla) muffler is pretty quiet in the car. But the wind & road noises are significant.
I sealed up every opening in the trunk while the car was apart for paint and the trunk seal itself is a new OE part installed last year.
I made and installed moisture barriers in the doors this Spring and that made a big difference in noise and air-intrusion.
I realize I'm attempting to undo a death by 1000 cuts. Just working my way through them as I conjure up clever solutions.

Originally Posted by MFX

Sound deadening is often the first thing that gets ditched when people are trying to save weight, but a really loud car really wears you down on long trips.
So many people think I am nuts, that I want to quiet down my ITB's. The noise is amazing when I am on it in the tiwisties and that never gets old, but the constant intake drone on the highway gets old FAST.

I've installed DEI Boom Mat on the interior surfaces below the carpet and there is some MLV on the backseat and parcel shelf. I'm not entirely convinced any of it has really made a difference. I have some ideas on how to restore some sort of sound barrier without the 40lbs of crap the factory used.
I agree the ITBs make a lot of noise on a road trip. Do you have room to put a 964/993/996 manifold over the top of them? The difference in throttle response is negligible, but the gain in mid-range and reduction of noise make it worth the effort/expense. If I find myself considering ITBs again, they'll be fitted under the 964 manifold I have now for those reasons.

Originally Posted by AG81

I haven't been stuck in mine more than about 2 hours Chris. I am on the same page however. 2 hr's is about my limit in this car. 5-6 hours in a car with all the creature comforts. I found the drone of my original exhaust (loved it on short trips) was the worst. Fixed that with a new exhaust system. I did go with the light battery and it has been trouble free since 2017. I am not sure I'll ever be in a situation where I can get a classic car, of any kind, comfortable enough for a 5-6 hr trip.

Good Luck with that......

The furthest I've traveled in the 911 in a day is ~700 miles. Ear plugs mitigate the windnoise and weigh much less than sound deadening, but make conversation very difficult. One of these days, I may buy a modern Pcar for long hauling. But right now, I need the versatility of the Q more than I need to be comfortable a few weekends a year.

Originally Posted by Showdown

Noise canceling Bluetooth headphones make all the difference once points of contact have been upgraded like seats, pedals, steering wheel, etc…

One day, I'm going to find a way to make this work and be mad it took me so long. But I really don't like the idea of wearing these anymore than I like wearing earplugs. :/

Originally Posted by Mixed76

My 76 is very comfortable with stock suspension, stock seats, stock 78SC exhaust, and all original sound deadening materials in place. All it lacks for driving comfort is cruise control and a wheel that's a bit closer to the driver.

Leans about the same as a new Miata in turns, weighs ~2550#

Sent from my Pixel 7 using Tapatalk

This is the obvious answer to comfort in a 911. But it's also the polar opposite to my disposition.
I'd sooner sell the SC and buy a 991 than revert the SC to stock.

Originally Posted by ryans65

I've had my e30 bmw for almost 20 years, at one point it was an auto cross/ track day sorta car with two seats and a steering wheel. I stubbornly drove it with two fixed back seats for a number of years until I couldn't bear the noise, vibration and harshness any longer. I collected a nice black interior for it along with some leather sport seats and never looked back. I still rock the harness bar/ roll bar but aside from that it's stock inside, quiet and comfortable even on long road trips. The wanna be race car look is ok around town but it just got old after a while ..... that's what I'm getting at lol. I do like your car and commitment to weight savings though.

Ben Franklin said something about, "...all things in moderation..."
I'm just tinkering with that concept...attempting to maintain balance as my needs change.
Life would be easier if I had the SC savage and raw and it rode on a trailer to its various destinations and I had another car for long cruising. But I'm not that guy. I want it all, and I want it from one car. So my project continues as I learn new things and try them out.

[Showdown]

One solution is to do what Jeff is doing on the Alfarari and use serious sound deadening materials (dynamat and mass loaded vinyl) and switch those aluminum bumpers to glass… that probably nets out as an even trade off of weight with an appreciable benefit to comfort.

[chrisbalich]

Originally Posted by Showdown

One solution is to do what Jeff is doing on the Alfarari and use serious sound deadening materials (dynamat and mass loaded vinyl) and switch those aluminum bumpers to glass… that probably nets out as an even trade off of weight with an appreciable benefit to comfort.

Don't give away all my secrets.

In all seriousness, my (rough) plan is to:
- stiffen and sound deaden the parcel shelf & backseat seat back
- apply sound deadening to the wheel wells...on the outside
- look more into the sonderworks sound pad for th engine bay...or duplicate it myself for <$300
- seal up the holes in the 'firewall' between the dash and trunk
- replace all window seals, felts, etc
- 993 windscreen & seals to reduce wind noise

- stiffen the chassis to improve suspension actuation
- fancy adjustable shocks/coilovers for improved ride quality without sacrificing handling
- install black 'pillows' in my WEVO mounts to decrease NVH
- replace polybronze bushings with RSR sphericals to stop creaking/groaning/general frustration
- judiciously remove weight to offset what'll be gained from above