CIS for '78-'79 SC and '80-'83 without LAMBDA

[Gunter]

Complete Bosch CIS for1978-79 FD 0 438 100 031 with NEW airflow sensor boot, pop-off valve and ADJUSTABLE WUR 0 438 140 045. Large intake runners and clean injectors plus 2 airfilter covers:
$800.- Used on my SS 3.2 which is sold.

Shipping with Canada Post or DHL? from Nelson, BC, Canada, V1L 4J7 to your ZIP or Postal Code.
NO PRIVATE MESSAGES OR REPLIES HERE, PLEASE, USE MY EMAIL: aquastar@netidea.com




Adjustable WUR:

[Gunter]

Complete..........no bolts or lines missing.

[Gunter]

Sold.....with a discount including shipping.

[sithot]

Subscribed.

[rick2]

Was the discount off of the original $1100 or the new price of $800? I have one of these that I am thinking of selling but $800 still seems a high asking price.

[Gunter]

Condition and the market determines selling price. If you get no offers, lower the price.
Does your CIS have an adjustable WUR and Decel. Valve and new air flow boot?
Original Bosch FD? Came off a working engine? All lines and banjos present?
Post pictures and price and see what responses you get.
People should look closely at the pictures to judge condition and ask for more info and maybe more pictures and then make an offer. In other words, ask before you buy to avoid misunderstandings.
These systems are now over 35 years old and will have some cosmetic nicks and scratches but as long as the air box isn't cracked, it should work.
The CIS is bulky and heavy. The second air filter cover didn't fit into the already large box but if the buyer really needs it, I'll ship it.
The final price is between buyer and seller.

[sithot]

Originally Posted by Gunter

Condition and the market determines selling price. If you get no offers, lower the price.
Does your CIS have an adjustable WUR and Decel. Valve and new air flow boot?
Original Bosch FD? Came off a working engine? All lines and banjos present?
Post pictures and price and see what responses you get.
People should look closely at the pictures to judge condition and ask for more info and maybe more pictures and then make an offer. In other words, ask before you buy to avoid misunderstandings.
These systems are now over 35 years old and will have some cosmetic nicks and scratches but as long as the air box isn't cracked, it should work.
The CIS is bulky and heavy. The second air filter cover didn't fit into the already large box but if the buyer really needs it, I'll ship it.
The final price is between buyer and seller.

Bollocks!!!

Why are you telling him about the missing air box top much like you said to me after the fact???

I am the one who bought the system with the 2nd air box top missing! No matter as what I have is a previously broken and repaired air box. Ground off #4 runner. No TTV. A real mess. You suggested the #4 runner was done at the factory. Not. Never. You also suggested that these cars didn't utilize a TTV. Wrong again.

It has been suggested by you that it's my fault for not asking questions.

The description wouldn't lead anyone to think there were issues. How is that my fault?

In the (Porsche) and real world, unless otherwise noted, a refund is always the policy for anything that isn't what the buyer expected. I didn't expect a box full of loose and missing parts rattling around and doing damage to themselves.

To devolve to this point is unfortunate but I gave you every opportunity to make this right and you refused.

PS: The WUR was found after obviously bouncing around in bottom of the box under a bunch of broken styrofoam. I don't hold out much hope for it.

[Gunter]

Well, there is always a first…………
O.K. Tom (sithot)
You were in a hurry to get the system and despite the fact that we had serious fire issues in the Slocan Valley, I went out of my way to get a large box and accommodate your wish. To make the CIS fit, I had to dismantle the large ALU pipe and runners 1,2 and 3 and the WUR for separate packaging. I used a lot of foam and rubber material to ensure that the parts would not be damaged. The package was very tight and the second air filter cover just didn’t fit. As I said in my earlier email, I can ship the second cover if you really need 2 covers? For some reason PayPal didn’t charge me a fee, so, I owe you $25.00.

As for your other claims, I’m looking at the pictures in the 2 posts:

Both bottom air filter tabs are there and NOT broken!
The minor cosmetic Epoxy repair on the venting stud is visible; the air box is NOT broken and had no vacuum leak!
Grind on #4 runner is from factory and was also on my other 3.0 runners.
It’s common practice to grind the casting seems smooth before assembly.

Thermo Valve was not on all systems. As far as I know, it was dropped
after 1977 and my pictures don't show a TTV. For me, "complete" means with
all parts to make it functional, especially all lines, banjos, bolts and screws. Like many people, I consider the TTV a nuisance.
This CIS with adjustable WUR and Deceleration Valve without TTV worked just fine.

I gave you a discount on the system, had no intention to deceive you and
would've gladly produced more pictures and answered questions had you
asked.
As I said before, these systems are more than 35 years old and have small cosmetic issues; they cannot be expected to be pristine. The pictures
showed condition with the best intentions and the CIS was sold as
presented in the pictures.

In your last email you insulted me by claiming that I didn’t send the WUR and now you suddenly found it. Please!?!? I think you’re jerking my chain with BS but wish you all the best.

[sithot]

Dear Mr. Retterath:

The only way to get your attention is to jerk your chain.

Let's wear this out one more time.

1) You have used excuses and incorrect 2nd or 3rd party information.

No car EVER came from the factory with ground off bosses on #4 or any of the other bosses for TTV or WUR. Porsche doesn't allow that sort of "work" (ham fisted grinding) to leave the factory.
I've already sent you a half dozen photos and I doubt seriously that you'll have anyone back you on this work. IF Porsche did release something like this I can assure you that a Bridgeport or similar milling machine would have been employed OR they would have changed the casting which is unlikely (costs) and because people DO actually grind them off on their own with mixed results, like the one you sent.

2) You don't accept any blame:

The packaging was poorly executed for such valuable pieces.
The air box was broken before you sent it. That's IS a fact. A fact you admit but didn't disclose in the ad. "You claim it was fully functioning" but that's not the point which you have yet to understand. YOU DIDN'T DISCLOSE THIS WHICH WOULD HAVE STOPPED ME FROM BUYING THIS MESS IN THE 1ST PLACE.
I'm not guaranteeing the broken air box tie down boss on the air box was broken but it didn't look like a fresh break either. Of course the packaging could have taken care of that as it sounded like broken bottles when it arrived. I crossed my fingers and hoped for the best.

3) Hyperbole:

I wasn't in a hurry until you balked about shipping after saying it was "READY TO SHIP AS SOON AS I AM PAID". Then you dragged your feet and told me to be "Patient". I send $875 to somebody I don't know and he then tells me to be patient after worrying the hell out of me for the money? A Canadian Holiday was your excuse plus you wanted to re-pack everything. I played along with that uneasy feeling you get when you fell the other shoe is about to drop. Guess what? I was right.

4) More hyperbole:

What discount are you talking about? I paid the ask! Then you shorted the second air box cover and had the nerve to ask: "Do you really need it" after I told you it wasn't in the box as well as the issues with the previously broken and repaired air box.

5) The Truth:

I suggested a partial refund to off-set the purchase of one (air box). You balked and went quiet. That was your final answer and why we are now here. It never needed to be but that's the only option you left.

Very sincerely,

Tom

EOT

R Gruppe #111
Early S Registry #239
PCA Member
Life Member BMW MOA
res ipsa loquitur

[Gunter]

Good Sunday morning, Tom,
You will remember that I didn’t want PayPal because of their fees and suggested a USPS money order instead. About 10 days went by before you emailed that you couldn’t get to a Post Office and I agreed to PayPal. You indicated that you wanted the system ASAP and despite farming issues and close forest fires in my Valley, I went out of my way to accommodate your wish. I assumed that you studied the posted pictures and had no questions or issues. The "discount" was me absorbing most of the considerable shipping cost.

The CIS was tightly packed into a large box with lots of foam and foam rubber for protection and no parts “rattled around” like you claim. Runners 1,2,3 and ALU pipe and WUR had to be dismantled so the CIS could fit into the box; there was no room for the second filter cover. All lines, banjos, nipples and bolts were included to make this system complete.
Looking at the picture on both posts on Pelican, the air filter tabs are in place, the air box is not broken and the small epoxy repair on the vent stud is visible. The box is NOT cracked and had no vacuum leak! No attempt was made by me to misrepresent condition of this CIS. Did you really expect a 35 year old system to be like new? Please! I don’t sell junk and didn’t appreciate your insulting email claiming that I didn’t send the adjustable WUR, which you later found!

The casting seams and ground-off boss on #4 runner are cosmetic issues and can be easily taken care of. A 5” mini-grinder with a #40 sand paper disc will make everything smooth. Then use a 6” wire wheel on your bench grinder and the runners will look better than new, like shiny silver. I did this to a number of runners on different engines and was amazed at the results. Try it, you’ll like it!
Soak the injectors in injector cleaner for a day and make sure to properly bleed the system after installation. You’ll need new runner gaskets and rubber sleeves and maybe new O-rings for the injectors.
The TTV is mostly a component for emission control and I, along with others, would not use it. A properly working WUR with correct mixtures cold and hot plus correct timing would be best, IMHO. I’ve helped a lot of Pelicans over the years with CIS and other Porsche issues and may be able to help you with the K-Jetronic set-up.
Friendly greetings,
Gunter
ME Systems Engineering, Polytechnicum Zürich,
Emeritus Fidibus Hammersköld Dag Skolen Helsinki.
Hon. Doctorate Popology und Lochkunde Vienna.
Member #5 USG “Balto Prize” Top Musher 1995 N.W.T.
Ars gratia artis lapis lazuli

[island911]

Originally Posted by sithot

Bollocks!!!

Why are you telling him about the missing air box top much like you said to me after the fact???

I am the one who bought the system with the 2nd air box top missing! No matter as what I have is a previously broken and repaired air box. Ground off #4 runner. No TTV. A real mess. You suggested the #4 runner was done at the factory. Not. Never. You also suggested that these cars didn't utilize a TTV. Wrong again.

It has been suggested by you that it's my fault for not asking questions. ....

Wow. The pictures are right there. I think that you know that YOU should have looked a bit harder. 35 y/o CIS off of a modified 3.2 and you are outraged and surprised that it's not like factory OE? Btw, the ground off lug is common, as it has no use, other than is the same casting for #3 (where the lug is needed).

what a bunch of useless drama.

[rick2]

This may be useless drama to us but it looks like Sithot is not happy with what he got and Gunter isn't happy either.
It was advertised as "Complete Bosch CIS for1978-79" If it was used on a 3.2ss, a Bobcat or the Space Shuttle really makes no difference. "Complete" to me means every part that was on a 78, 79 car from original unless otherwise stated. The seller clearly pointed out that the WUR was modified and the system had new parts.

Maybe the best thing to do is for Sithot to return the CIS and Gunter to refund Sithot's cash.
1) If damage happened before or during shipping I can't see where that's the buyers fault.
2) If a piece or part was deliberately not shipped by the seller, then the blame clearly rests on the seller. If a part was part of the deal whether the buyer "needs" it or not is up to the buyer to do with it as he wishes.
In both instances I am not seeing how the buyer is responsible and the seller would not give a full refund.

[Gunter]

In previous emails to Tom, I’ve offered to ship the second air filter cover if he needs it but he didn’t reply.
Instead of shipping, I could send $25.- instead.
Even though I didn’t want PayPal, I’ve offered to send him his $25.- PayPal fee but he didn’t reply.
As far as I know, the ’78-’79 CIS didn’t have a TTV but if I’m wrong, I’ll send another $25.- so he can buy a used one. Bosch doesn’t list a TTV on their parts list but if someone can point to a diagram for ’78-’79 CIS parts with a TTV, I’d appreciate it. What does this thing look like?
The CIS was sold as presented on Pelican and I would have answered any questions and supplied additional pictures had Tom asked for them. I went out of my way to carefully pack and ship the CIS and didn’t expect Tom’s insulting replies accusing me of shipping damaged parts and not including the adjustable WUR, which he later found and promptly berated without even trying. If damage occured during shipping, it's not the seller's fault either and is no reason for a return/refund. Instead, a claim has to be made with Canada Post and USPS.

Any 35 year old system has some minor cosmetic issues but this CIS with new air flow boot and adjustable WUR worked fine. I don’t sell junk! Clean and polish and it’ll look great. Use new gaskets and sleeves. J. Walker recommends to use a 001 ignition distributor with the '78-'79 CIS.

Tom, as stated before, I’m prepared to make the above mentioned adjustments, let me know.

[afterburn 549]

I have personally meant gunter.
He is a fine gentleman.
I dont think he is out to screw you or anyone.
I recommend you send the stuff back and get a refund rather then this backbiting.

[Gunter]

Thanks for the compliments but a return is not an option for several reasons. One is, if there is damage from shipping as Tom says, a claim has to be made with Postal Services first.
Anybody who ever packaged a CIS will know that it's a bulky octopus requiring partial dismantle and lots of foam padding. It takes time and ends up being a large, heavy box.
Between initial contact and actual shipping, almost three weeks went by and Tom had every chance to ask questions and see additional pictures before shipping and I certainly did not appreciate his later accusations that I'd sent him junk. That was insulting and unnecessary and did not help matters.

I informed Tom a couple weeks ago that I would negotiate issues he raised but will not accept a return for the above reasons.
Does he want the PayPal fee $25.-refunded? The second air filter cover shipped or $25.- instead? Solve the riddle of the TTV being part of a '78 CIS or not? Accept $25.- if it was? Make a damage claim with Postal Service?

Friendly greetings.

[afterburn 549]

Some people have watched too many TV reality shows.
For him to take this dwn the road so everyone can read this is not a genuine attempt to fix the problem - but to cause a public disturbance.
I know you are a good guy, been on runs with you.
I would think as Pelicans there would be a civil way. You offered a resolve.
His move?