Won't even turn over, but did earlier...

[914zim]

Fellas:
I'm at my wits end... I seriously thinking about taking it to my local mechanic to let him figure it out.
Here's the history:
'76 2.0 L (stock). Got it in August. Hadn't been started in 4 years.
Replaced (new): fuel lines, fuel filter, all 4 injectors, cap, rotor, wires, plugs, coil, resealed the gas tank, changed oil and filter, tranny fluid, battery was new in August, replaced vacuum lines and even put in Pertronix Ignitor (suggested by Brad, did that today). $$$
When I tried to start it, it turned over and started and ran very rough only for about 5 seconds and died.
I did this about 10 times and then when I tried it, it wouldn't even turn over! I hear the fuel pump buzz when I turn the key, but it's won't turn over at all. Just when I thought I was getting somewhere - dammit!!!
Do you guys have any ideas why it won't turn over now and also why it was running so rough?
I checked the ground strap by the tranny and I cleaned it a few weeks ago.
Please guys, I need help on this... I'm really frustrated.
Thanks,
Andy...

[Jake Raby]

does the starter engage? does it even click?

[Dave at Pelican Parts]

Check the battery for full charge. Does it read 12.65V, or closer to 12.0V?

--DD

[Toast]

The problem your having is it sat for 4 years.
It needs to get all the cob webs out and get the fluids pumping again.

Check all the electronic connectors for rust or corrosion. Remove any rust, dirt, corrosion with a fine sand paper.

Flush the fuel and oil system with fresh fluids.

Make sure the battery has a good charge. Make sure the spark plugs, wires and dist. cap are good. Is the air filter clean?

Its all the little **** man. These are things I would do to get my beaters going after sitting out in the open for a few years.

Hope any of this helps.

Toasty

[norustscott]

1. does the seleniod engage the starter to the flywheel?
2. Is there a clicking noise from the starter area ...low voltage
3. Can you turn the engine over by hand? or by pushing the car in gear.

We need to find out it it is an electrical problem ... most likely ... or a mechanical problem.

[914zim]

Thanks fellas.
I have the charger on the battery right now.
There is no sounds at all when I try the remote switch.
It was turning over (and starting) earlier, just not running very well.
I guess I should try the inside ignition switch tomorrow.
All the fluids and filters have been changed.
I'll take another look at the ground strap. How do I remove it completely, IOW, how do you get off the tranny nut/bolt?
Andy...

[Jake Raby]

DRAIN THE FUEL 100% BEFORE IT EVER STARTS, else you'll seize a valve in a jiffy with the old dead fuel!

Can you trun the engine by hand, or put it in 5th gear and rock it to see the engine turn over?

[SGB]

Yeah, put it in 5th and push on it, or if the back is jacked up, put a couple of lug bolts part way back in to lever a pipe or breaker bar against. Try to turn the wheel and see if the engine turns or is siezed. You may want to put the stock ignition back in to see if it will make any diff. Has it not turned over since you put in pertronix? Maybe something isn't right with that?

[TimW]

How about the fuel pump? Have you checked the fuel flow at the fuel rail? Maybe there is enough pressure at first but then drops once the fuel flows?

Or maybe it's getting to much fuel? Leaky cold start valve perhaps?

Maybe I could stop over sometime and take a look? Email me.

[914zim]

I guess Santa comes early this year for me...
A local 914 guy offers to come over and help my sorry ass out!!!
Thanks alot fellas for the responses...
I didn't get any time in on the 914 today... maybe tomorrow.
I put the charger on it yesterday and will try to get out there tomorrow while the wife is out Christmas shopping... oh yeah, I need to do that too....
Tim - Whenever it's convenient for you. I'm off all this week and weekend, but am working next week except for Thursday.
Thanks man!! I'll email you.
Andy...

[914Ghost]

Andy-
when you turn the key to 'start' do the "idiot" lights in the combo guage dim a little?
If so your starter is drawing voltage from the battery.
It generally means low charge or starter and/or wiring problem.
At least you can (nearly) eliminate ign' switch/wiring.
Your tranny ground strap will most likely not be a problem since you said you checked it out recently- and if needed the engine will ground through the damn throttle cable burning it in half.
If your battery is charged and you get NO dimming at idiot lights, use a jumper switch at the starter (battery cable to small spade connector) (or screwdriver of you like to weld).
If it dont crank get another starter.
HAppy Holidays!!

[914zim]

Thanks everyone!
Kinda busy with the whole Christmas thing today, but will hopefully get some time in tomorrow and over the weekend. I'll get back.
Merry Christmas!
Andy....

[914zim]

OK guys, here's an update... thanks for hanging in there with me...
Battery fully charged (trickle charged overnight).
Old gas drained and tank resealed. Replaced fuel lines, injectors, cap, rotor, wires, coil, air and fuel filter.
Intermittent starting, but when it does turn and fire, it runs very rough and only for 5-10 seconds then dies.
Sometimes when I turn the key (or use the remote switch) it doesn't even turn or engage. I usually hear the fuel pump buzz, but sometimes I don't get any dash lights at all.
It sounds like this is some electrical problem, but I'm not sure.
Any thoughts on where to go from here?
Thanks!
Andy...

[Dave at Pelican Parts]

Sounds like a bad ignition switch. Possibly a bad ground or bad connection in the wiring, but probably more likely a bad switch. But fixing the grounds is a lot easier... Just go in there and clean them all up with contact cleaner and emery cloth. Try that first.

--DD

[914zim]

Thanks Dave. I've had this problem whether I use the ignition switch or if I use a remote switch. What does that mean?
Is there a trick to getting the tranny ground strap off? I can't see how to get to the bolt on the tranny to remove it...
Andy...

[914zim]

Woo-hoo!, finally some progress...
I ended up taking the muffler(s) off, thinking they might be rusted up or packed with mouse nests after sitting for 4 years.
It sarted up immediately and actually ran and stayed running this time!!
After it ran for about 5 minutes (not 5 seconds this time), then the rpms started to jump from 500 to 3000 and at the same frequency (ie: it was doing it very consistantly).
I tried wiggling and then removing most (not all) of the vaccum lines (all new), and it didn't run any smoother.
This seems to me to be a vacuum issue (due to the regularity of the jumping), but could it be fuel related? I do have new fuel lines, new injectors new fuel lines, resealed tank and new fuel filter. I have not been able to get my hands on a fuel pressure tester yet.
Oh yeah, I think I still have the occasional no start problem too. That happened to me once this afternoon. When I tapped the battery terminals and reached under the passenger side seat, it would turn over fine. Someone mentioned a relay under the seat. What does this do? Can I get to it without removing the seat?
Any new ideas, given this update? It looks like I'm chasing 2 different problems here.
Thanks for the help guys!
Andy...

[sstine9]

Same problem I have had in the past ...buy a new ignition switch from Pelican (get 2...they are cheap and chances are you will use the 2nd some day) down load the info from the tech help site on steering wheel removal and changing out the ignition switch.. and I bet (in about 45 min) you will be smiling ear to ear Seems like when the switches go they will "toy" with you . I sat for 20 min in a market parking lot (with a car full of groceries) turning on off on off until it finally decided to start ..frustrating enough but add a "side order" of a 3 year old saying" car broke Dad! is the car broke? the whole time and you will not wait to change out switch again!!!

[914zim]

Thanks for the info...
Doesn't using a remote starter switch effectively "remove" the ignition switch from the circuit? I do have to turn the key to the "start" position in order to use the remote... maybe it's not "removed" then?
Andy

[Dave at Pelican Parts]

You have to turn the key to the "run" position--hopefully not the "start" position. So the ignition switch is still used. A bad one could still cause problems.

A clogged muffler, however, will cause all kinds of problems with starting and running!!

--DD

[914zim]

OK, I think you've convinced me.
I am going to order a new switch today.
From PP of course!
At least now if it happens again, maybe I can wiggle the switch or something. Maybe that'll help and prove that it's the problem.
Thanks!
Andy...