starter relay - Page 2

philinjax · 12-12-2005, 07:25 PM

Notwithstanding a solenoid contacts will degenerate to some extent over time, as long as it is shown to work every time the screw driver technique is used, it is surely good to go if you have a good hot start relay to substitute for the screw driver. If it ain't broke, don't fix it.

In the case of rcgrl's start malfunction, the solenoid ain't the culprit. rcgrl's start problem is that the hot start relay circuit is not working. He said he checked it and it looks good. Looking good doesn't mean that its wired correctly. That's why I asked that he remove it and rewire to stock. If he would still get the clicking, clattering, that would prove the hot start circuit/relay defective.

Phil

swl · 12-13-2005, 03:36 AM

Thats an interesting approach Jared. I wonder how many starters have been replaced due to contact resistance on starter side? I would expect that type of failure to be characterized more by a slow degradation of cranking power - starter cranking slower over time. That is certainly a common complaint on these cars that most of us assume is failing bearings on the starter. Cleaning up the contacts might be a good plan to delay the inevitable replacement of a starter.

In this case though contact resistance on the solenoid supply side is a more probable explanation of the intermittent starting. Seems like that resistance was up in the switch - again a high probability culprit.

I'm a strong believer in a volt meter for this type of trouble shooting. If you don't have the full 12 volts at the terminal - trace it back.

rcrgrl · 12-16-2005, 11:03 AM

such discussion over my little car! Thanks to all of you for your suggestions and help! I had re-wired to stock configuration and that didn't help. I think this is a combination of a lot of little things equaling too much resistance. I'v cleaned the relay board, and re-installed the new hot start relay, including re-wiring from the board to the relay with thicker guage wire, and plan to add a ground strap directly from the starter. However, its starting 95% of the time and i figure that's pretty good. Now, on to the exhaust leak....
btw, rcrgrl stands for racer girl

Kevin Powers · 12-22-2005, 08:58 AM

it's the other 5% that will have you asking strangers for a push when your car is dead at a reststop. did you check or replace the starter?

k

rcrgrl · 12-22-2005, 10:23 PM

yep, bench tested it and all was good. i do have a second starter, which also bench tests very nicely, but i think its out of a 914-6 though they are very similar. i'm thinking of, and assuming i can just swap them...?

Clay Perrine · 12-23-2005, 07:16 AM

The simple solution in 3 parts.
1. Replace the ignition swith. It's not expensive, and it will insure the voltage gets to the starter.
2. Clean the contacts throughout the starter circuit. This only costs a can of contact cleaner, and it good preventative maintenence anyway.
3. Spend the money for an aftermarket high torque starter. It's newer technology, and it draws less amps on the start circuit.

I did this after fighting a hot start problem on Betty's 914 for years. It starts everytime now with no hesitation.

Dave at Pelican Parts · Dave at Pelican Parts's Garage

It might be a good idea to put a diode in the circuit to prevent "flyback current" from causing arcing across the contacts in the ignition switch. This should help the new switch live longer.

I do not know exactly which wires you put the diode on; I assume it goes on the yellow wire to the starter, though.

Hmm, but I seem to recall that an extra ground wire was run? Grr, I wish I had access to my old archives right about now!!!

--DD

smooth_eddy · smooth_eddy's Garage

I had lots of starting issues (or should I say not starting) with my stock starter. Both with and w/o the aux relay. I installed the mini starter that I bought off eBay (100 bucks delivered) and have not had a single issue since. It turns the engine way better. Even when my battery is on the low side from sitting too long. Eddy

smooth_eddy · smooth_eddy's Garage

The best part is I got to throw away that aux relay which is just a band aid anyway. Eddy

Downerman · 03-24-2009, 09:23 PM

After reading this thread I need to tell you about my issue. SAME AS RCRGRL and it was two things... well three as it would appear my starter is now on the fritz. Listen good here folks as I believe this is going to happen more and more as these 914's get older. On the back of the tumbler (key) there is a peice that slides into the ignition switch. Mine was so worn from pressure at the "Start" position (All the way twisted). that it no longer made a full turn so no matter how hard you turned the key you did not get 12V out even replacing the ignition switch (twice)...shame on me. I tested the contituity of the ignition switch with it sitting on my bench using a screw driver to turn it. Put the original tumbler which was out of the car and then tested it. AS mentioned NADA... no 12V. I bought a used tumbler and stole the rear section which is held on with a pin you have to punch out. This replacement didn''t have anywhere near the wear. Tested on the bench and shazam Gomer, 12V everytime.

Now, 2nd issue. From the regulator plate you have a front entry and a rear entry of voltage. Pin 1 I believe on the front and pin 6 on the rear. I had voltage off the rear which of course ment I had it at the front, but no voltage at the solenoid. Spliced a couple inches off the back of the regulator plate and ran a new heavy guage yellow wire to the solenoid. Tested the old stock wire.. NADA, tested new wire 12 V. It's all good.

Now, today, same old poop, it will not start. I have 12.51 volts to the starter and 12.48 to the solenoid when I hit the key so I am thinking the MEXICO starter/solenoid are suspect as well. So the moral to the story? **** happens, buy a volt meter, grab a wireing diagram and start testing. I hope this helps !!

HalfMoon · HalfMoon's Garage

Quote:

Originally Posted by philinjax

rcrgrl,

First, check out your hot start relay wiring against this drawing.

Phil

Phil!
I think you may have hit upon something in my hot start problem. According to your diagram and mine (as copied from what I observe of my wires), my hot start relay has been wired wrong. Check out my diagram? It appears as if someone placed wire 1 and wire 2 to the starter thus not achieving the relay hot start. Would not wire 1 be omitted entirely and wire 2 (from the kill switch) go to the relay?
D

dr914 · 10-14-2019, 09:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rcrgrl

hi all, i'm new to this so thanks in advance for your patience! I am having starter problems in my '72 which I believe are the result of a dead starter relay. (I've read the tech articles and tested the ignition switch, starter, battery, ground strap, etc., etc.) For clarification, the relay is an aftermarket "upgrade" right? Based on that assumption, is it better to try and revert back to the no-relay wiring? This was my first thought, but in all honestly I have no idea what the original wiring is - maybe just replace the relay and be done with it? Any thoughts or suggestions? Thanks!

First see if you have a signal 12v to the big yellow lead coming from the ignition harness when the key is engaged in the start position. THEN short across the starter with a screwdriver and if the starter engages and turns the engine, then you can replace the relay with another (also check the fuse) what the relay installed usually means is that the starter is weak and cannot deal with the voltage drop from the ignition key. If the starter does not engage replace the starter (this assumes that your battery and ALL ground connections are good and the battery itself if fully charged!