C2 Brake Calipers on 914

[soloracer]

I just purchased a set of 4 brake calipers (front and rear) from a 1991 911 Carrera 2. Is this a good choice of caliper for a 914 track car? Are adapters needed? My car already has a 5 bolt conversion. I am told that I have to measure the distance between the mounting points to see what calipers will work. Are the 928 GTS/ 944 M030 brakes the same as the C2?

[jabb]

Are you running 911 suspension ? What kind of rotors do you have?
Putting big calipers on small rotors is not a good idea. The spacing for the SC and Carrera rotors is 3 1/2 inches nut sure for 90 911 and newer.

Can you provide more details

[soloracer]

I just pulled the rims off and here is what I found:

Rear

The rear rotor has this number on it (LU 3357 911.352.041.06) and is 11.5" wide and 1" thick. It has the following also wrote on it: Min Th 0,690 Max Dia 7.126"
The caliper bolt holes are 3" center of hole to center of hole or 3.5" from outside of hole to outside of hole.

Front

The front struts are BOGE 911 341 042 04 and there was ATE Caliper bolted in place with the letters 12G on it. I could not get the rotor off as there is a 2 inch spacer bolted onto the front of it that appears to lock it in place. The caliper bolt holes are 3.5" center to center or 4" outside to outside. The rotor is 1" thick and the surface area that the brake pad would contact is approx 2 1/4 inches wide.

Does this help? What other things should I be looking for?

Thanks.

[Jeroen]

hey soloracer,

for the fronts, here's what you need to do:

you need 911 3.2 carrera ('84-'89) rotors
next, have the mounting holes on the front calipers re-machined so they are 3.5" as well
then bolt everything up. You don't need spacers or adapters

some one else will have to help you with the rears though...

cheers,

Jeroen

[Rog914]

It sounds like your front brakes have changed out to the 911 setup but what year I don't know. I don't think the C2 caliper will be a bolt on item. The rear C2 caliper I know will take a lot to make it work and you lose your rear parking brake. The late 89 to 94 911's model # is called "964" (95 to 98 is 993, 99 to when ever next change comes [07?] is 996)
Anyway I found this website that may help you out. You supply the calipers they make you a bolt-on kit.
www.vehiclecraft.com/Brakes/vciweb0.htm
Then scroll down to where it says "911, 914/6 using 964/944T/968 type caliper upgrade". They should be the kit you need. Hopr that helps
Ralph

[Dave at Pelican Parts]

The 3" bolt spacing means that thefront struts are "M" struts. The calipers are likely cast-iron "M" calipers.

Not sure about the rears.

--DD

[GaryW]

Solo,

Jeroen is correct. I have 944T calipers up front, which are the same size 4 pot brembos. I had Boge struts modified to fit, so I can use boge, koni, or bilstein struts. Rich Johnson (A914guy@aol.com) did the setup for me. Carrera rotors and some nice pads and you'll be ripping your fillings from your head with the middle pedal...

Here's a picture of Rich's work:

He does nice work, having the struts powdercoated after the mounts are cut and rewelded to fit. Mine has koni's rather than Bilsteins and doesn't have slotted rotors.

There's a good summary of 911 brake systems on the rennsport page. It goes over the evolution and lists rotor and pad sizes, although not caliper mount spacing: Rennsport

Gary

[soloracer]

Thanks for the help. I took a look at the vehiclecraft site and they want $1695 plus my calipers to do the conversion which is too much for my blood. I'll be sure to e-mail Rich and see what he charges. The funny thing is the rotors on my car look EXACTLY like the one in Gary's picture - spacer and all.

Gary - are saying that the C2 calipers are the same as the ones on a 928 gts/944 Turbo w/M030?

Also, what is the challenge with using the rear calipers from the C2? I don't need a parking brake since this is to be a track car. Will I need a proportioning valve? Are there issues with the brake lines and getting them to fit? I imagine a 911 C2 master cylinder would be OK.

[Jeroen]

The 944turbo and 964 C2 front calipers are the same ones
Those are NOT the 928 or 944 M030 calipers!

The conversion on the VCI site, is for use with bigger rotors (either 930 or 993 IIRC) which is why it is so expensive
For a 914 this is overkill IMHO

I have the 944turbo (or 964 C2) front calipers on my '87 911 carrera and I have NO fading on the track with them. And my car weighs quite a bit more than any 914!

So again, for the fronts, either redrill the calipers to fit the 3.5" mounting ears on the struts, or have the mountingears on the strut modified to the calipers

Mine simply have the calipers redrilled. That is the ONLY modification you need.
They will bolt to the strut without any spacers or adaptors and fit the carrera rotors
So it's about the simplest and cheapest brake conversion available and it works very well and is a very worthwile upgrade

Converting the C2 rears to mount to the 914 trailing arm may be quite a bit more of a challenge (the rears have 3" mount spacing on the 914 trailing arm)

I think the most seen rearbrake converion on the 914 is using the M front calipers with 911 vented rear rotors
I believe you'll need some very minor spacers to center the caliper over the rotor. So that is prolly the easiest (thus cheapest) option
Search the BBS on 'rear brake conversion' for further details, it's been discussed quite a few times already...

cheers,

Jeroen

[soloracer]

Thanks Jeroen. I have an 89 944 Turbo and know those calipers are huge. I wasn't sure if the C2 calipers were the same size or not. I may be able to buy the C2 rotors as well (front and rear). Do you think this would be a wise move?

[Jeroen]

the C2 rotors will NOT fit your struts...
Use the carrera 3.2 rotors

cheers,

Jeroen

[soloracer]

I hate to beat this thing to death but I can buy all 4 C2 rotors for $100 US. Since the C2 rotors will not fit my struts is it possible to buy the C2 struts as well,install them and thus get the correct mounting points for the calipers? Or do the 1991 C2 struts not fit the 914?

[Jeroen]

sorry to disapoint you, but again... nope, no go
the struts and a-arms of the c2 and later cars differ very much from the earlier 911s

and to be one step ahead of you
even if you buy the C2 a-arms you'd have some serious fab work to do to mount them to an earlier 911 or 914 tub

cheers,

Jeroen

[soloracer]

Hi Jeroen! Thanks for the advice and for staying one step ahead of me. So what you are saying is forget about trying to convert my 914 to C2 specs. Too bad because I think it would have been a good combination. I paid $177 for all 4 calipers so I would really like to use them. Perhaps the limited applications or expensive conversion process is why they were priced so reasonably. In your opinion, knowing what I paid for the calipers, do you think I would be better off going through with adapting the C2 calipers to my 914 or selling them and going with the conventional upgrade of BMW 320i calipers?

[Jeroen]

solo,

ok, now I'm all confused, what's with the BMW upgrade?
What is on your car right now?
4 or 5 lug?

If you have 4 lug, go for the BMW's

If you have 5, use the C2 calipers on the front with carrera rotors and struts that have a 3.5" caliper mount
Re-read the posts above...

For the rears, you "might" beable to get the C2's to work, but it won't be as easy (do some searching here for 'rear brake upgrade' or sumptin' like that)
Can't help you much on that one

cheers,

Jeroen

[soloracer]

Sorry for the confusion. My car has 5 lugs. I thought the BMW upgrade was for 5 lug too. My mistake. I appreciate the help. I'll keep you guys posted as to how I'm making out.

[echocanyons]

what is the reason that the later C2 rotors wont fit the earlier cars?

I know the suspension was completely changed.
Do they not use the same type of extended hub on the earlier cars?