swaping turbo or 968 engine into a S2?

Hey,
I am wondering about the difficulty of putting either a 968 engine or a 951/2 engine into a S2. I am specifically interested in what exactly you would have to change like DME or what have you. Also, is just putting a fresh S2 engine difficult? For those of you with S2's, does it have better brakes or better suspension (if it doesnt have the M030 package?) Thanks alot guys, and please dont tell me to forget about it and buy a 951....
Maciek

[ribs]

Well...not that I am any expert, or have performed either swap, but from my limited knowledge on the subject...

The 951 motor and all of its accessories should bolt directly into your S2 since besides the motor (and accessories), clutch, and transmission, your S2 is identical to a turbo (including the brakes and suspension from a non-S turbo IIRC). You would need the DME, KLR, the engine, clutch, and some/most of the accessories from the motor. I don't know about the wiring.

The 968 motor should also be a similar swap since the motor mounts, torque tube, and everything else bolt up identically...but I don't know if the inside of the engine bay is the same. It may require modification to some of the engine accessories (maybe not) and you will also need the DME, the MAF, and a few other knick knacks.

So, in short, it is like dropping a 5.7L motor out of a a '91 camaro into the engine bay for a 3.8L '87 camaro; much easier than dropping a 5.7L camaro motor into a 944.

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ribs, 86' 951
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[Britwrench]

The 951 into a S2 is not difficult.
You need a complete 951 motor, wire harness,
DME and KLR control units, fuel lines from a 8 valve 944 and the instrument panel if you want a boost gauge. It's a bolt in.

Putting a 968 in, I don't know and haven't
tried, but probably the same as above will work. The main problem you might have is integrating the 968 electrics to the 944.

Changing the S2 motor is just unbolting and installing, just takes a long time.

What's wrong with your existing engine?

Its from a car Im looking at, engine fire...
thanks for the info, keep it coming! does anyone have the estimated time/cost of doing it myself if i have the whole new engine/dme ect or how much a shop would charge me?
Thanks again for everything
Maciek

[AFJuvat]

I think the only real difference between the S2 and the 968 engine is the DME and that the 968 has variocam (at least I don't think the s2 has it, never messed with one)

There are a few things to watch/quirks on the 698 engine though, drop me an email and I let ya know

AFJuvat

[Britwrench]

We charge around 20-25 hours for an engine change, depending on what needs to be swapped, repaired, replaced or found.

Ribs,
You mentioned I would need a new clutch if I switched to 951 engine. Why? Maybe I read it wrong, but my simple mind doesnt understand why the clutch in the S2 wouldnt work with the 951 engine. Also, would the 951 clutch just bolt right in or would it need to be modified? Thanks again for all the responses, I will keep you posted on whether or not I buy the car..
Maciek

[Z-man]

Have you thought about the cost factor here? A 944S2 engine produces 208hp, while the 944 Turbo does about 220hp, which is only 12 hp more! So you're going to spend thousands of dollars to gain 12 hp? Doesn't make sense. Get a chip for $400. Of course, I am assuming that your engine is either good or can be repaired. (Never heard of an engine that cannot be repaired!)

The 968 engine (or the 944TurboS engine) have more hp, but again, it doesn't really make sense to transplant either engine into an S2, unless you have a 'brand new' 944S2 shell, which would probably already have a 'brand new' 944S2 engine. (The 944Turbo S has other goodies that you'd have to move over, like bigger disk brakes, beefier suspension...etc).

One more thing: within the past year, there was an article in Excellence magazine about a fellow who put a 944S2 engine into a 944S body. Check it out: it may give you some ideas.

Oh, and one more thing: there's nothing wrong with the S2 engine. Why do you want to switch it for another engine?

One clarification: both the 944S2 and 968 engines are 4cyl, 3liter 16valve engines, but the 968 is the only one with Variocam.

Just my $0.42.
-Zoltan.
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[This message has been edited by Z-man (edited 11-06-2001).]

[Macabre]

Well, perhaps it's not the stock HP he's interested in but the very inexpensive potential HP. Maybe he's got a cabriolet or he just likes his car and wants more power - there's not much of an upgrade path for the S2 motor. Anyways, a mildly tuned 951 motor with S2 gearing will be very quick..

There's nothing wrong with the S2 motor but it would be awfully tough to get 300hp out of one.. an easy task with a 951 motor.

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'86 951 Graphite Metallic/Tan

[porscheboi928s/c944t/n]

IMHO...i'd turbocharged that S2 16V MOTOR...

[Andre]

I am pretty much planning this same thing within the next year cept i have a 944 NA. And i know buying a 951 would be cheaper but i already have the na and thats money spent. If any of you recall how much your porsche cost the first year of ownership you will remember that it takes a bit of money to get it upto par. So if i sell the NA, i lose money there, and then buying a 951(not REALLY knowing the condition, i mean you cant check EVERYTHING when you are buying and also putting money into the 951 for the first year...)

It actaully sounds like more fun to get an engine with high miles do an easy overhaul while the engine is out and drop it in.

Maciek....the 968 engine should drop right in. A few guys on rennlist.com are doing this. 951 motor is a little harder because you need to make alterations for the intercooler and custom piping is needed aswell. Everyone pretty much mentioned what you need for this complete motor, dme, klr, clutch.....keep the S2 tranny with the shorter gears will make the car accelarate faster but if you plan to mod the 951 engine then you will want the 968 tranny or the 951 tranny because you will have problems with wheel spins if the engine gets to be powerful.

good luck and let me know what you decide and where you get your engine.

[Britwrench]

951 engine into S2 is complete bolt in, the intercooler mounts are already in the nose panel.

[Andre]

Thats even better! those mounts aren't there in the NA are they?

Hey Guys,
Thanks again for all the replies. The more I am thinking about this, the more of a reality it seems to be. I will know for sure in 5 days so I will tell you whats going on. Basically, I am trying to buy a S2 cab that had an engine fire. It would cost at least 2K to fix all the damage to the engine, and the engine already has 100K on it, so I am seriously considering putting in either a fresh S2 engine, a 968 engine, a 951 engine or most preferably a 952 engine. I really dont know what I will chose until I get the car shipped to my house and look at the damage. I may very well try and repair that damage, however I found several engines that have been just rebuilt for 3-4K and ready to drop in. I am very tempted to go ahead and make it one of those 944 Turbo S cabriolets that you can only find in Europe, but the cost of this may ofset the feasabilty. I am also planning on upgrading the brakes to the 952 brakes as well as throwing in a gently used M030 suspension to make the car an all around beast. If I get the car and survey the damage, you guys will defintely hear about it, and I will let you know what engine I decide on. Thanks again for all the input.
Maciek

[ChrisBennet]

While the S2 brakes are the same as the (non-S) Turbo brakes, they lack the brake ducting through the nose. I was disappointed with their tendency to warp on me at the track but it wouldn't be an issue on the street.
Chris

Hey Guys,
I ended up buying the car, so now I have a HUGE project on my hands. It should be a really fun time though and the end product will be awesome. Here is a link to the car I bought this morning:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=597549602

I have to get the car shipped to my house to inspect the engine carefully and decide whether I want to rebuild or replace. I am leaning toward replacing it because I have already found some great engines that have been profesionaly rebuilt on sale for cheap. Anyways, I am certain I will have tons of questions regarding all the repairs I will have to make so you will be hearing from me alot. Also, I will post a website with pictures and details of the whole engine swapping procedure as it goes along. The first think I really need to do is to sell one of my other 944s for cash for this project, so PLEASE buy my 944S, or at least refer people you know interested in purchasing a 944 to me, because of the purchase of my third porsche the price just became more negotiable. I will bump up that post in case you missed it the first time. Thanks for all your replies, your advice def helped me make this decision.
Maciek