Warning About Buying a Porsche without PPI

[Cking1975]

I thought I would share my story so that people can understand the importance of doing there homework before buying a Porsche. First off I have never bought a car of Ebay before...and never will again...
I bought this Porsche (mentioned many times) from Ebay...I had many phone conversations with the owner...very good ones at that. He told me how the car had been serviced when ever needed, basically everything worked except for the tops electrical motor and some minor wear to the interior (which is true, the interior is nice). To make a long story short, here are some photos of the car...I have spent over 40 hours and 3000 USD on this car getting it into safe running condition...he even stated the car was inspected in the state of NH...If I did not have 2 kids and a wife, this guy would be missing limbs.
Learn from my mistake...never ever ever buy a car off Ebay without going inspecting it and getting a professional to inspect it. Sad for him, he is getting kicked off Ebay and will be responsible for giving me a percentage back of the service cost

[Dave L]

So what exactly was wrong with it?

[flash968]

an all too common tale

unfortunately, the thing that most people fail to realize is that these cars are all OLD

what that means in real life is that EVERY original rubber component in the car is well beyond its life expectancy of 8 years - many of these things may or may not ever be noticed during normal service or inspections, and would not become evident until they failed

as an example, i just bought a very clean 14k mile 94 968 cab, and had to change every belt, hose and fluid, purely due to age - nothing "wrong" with the car, but it needed to be done

bottom line, if it hasn't been done in the last 5 years, you can bet that it needs to be done - so, plan on spending 3k-5k in the first year of ownership on any car you buy

yes, a PPI is helpful, but it also presumes that you go to a shop that actually knows the cars - unfortunately, dealerships have now generally become the least effective places to do this - most of the guys there have not seen many of these cars, and do not wish to - of the 5 dealerships in a 100 mile radius of me, only 1 has a mechanic that has worked on 968s, and not all that much

these cars are really for DIY guys now - they have gone the way of the 914 in that respect - lol - good thing i like doing it myself

[hpservertech]

$3k in the grand scheme of things isn't all that bad. Espcially if a shop does the work given what the hourly rate may be. Any time I buy a used car....any used car, there are things I always expect to have to do. Things such as brakes, tires, bulbs, clutch, etc. Just part of any plan I make for myself when looking at a used car.

Unless the car came with a guarantee or a warranty it's buyer beware.

[Scuba Steve]

Ok I'm curious too... what's wrong with it?

[CJFusco]

Originally Posted by flash968

yes, a PPI is helpful, but it also presumes that you go to a shop that actually knows the cars - unfortunately, dealerships have now generally become the least effective places to do this - most of the guys there have not seen many of these cars, and do not wish to - of the 5 dealerships in a 100 mile radius of me, only 1 has a mechanic that has worked on 968s, and not all that much

these cars are really for DIY guys now - they have gone the way of the 914 in that respect - lol - good thing i like doing it myself

I dunno. I don't know where you live, but here in New England, there are TONS of small shops that specialize in European sports cars or even Porsches in general. Heck, I know of 5 or 6 Porsche specialty shops in CT alone, and a few of those are Porsche-only.

[Arizona_928]

same here. it looks to be in pretty good condition....

[Cking1975]

What is wrong:

The entire brake and wheel system were shot (beyond anything I have ever seen)
Rotors
Bearings
Calipers (front)
E-brakes and cables
Struts/Shocks (shot)
PS pump shot (I rebuilt it) Leaking
Air cleaner was so messed up I built a custom K&N setup
Tires were gone (not worn) there was no tread left
Fuel lines were leaking
Transmission I think needs a rebuild....although it may be the mounts
Hood release was broken
It has a cheap paint job
Top is shot
He never gave me the cabrio boot
Oil pan has leak
Front Main seal is leaking
Balancer belt whines like a baby

The part that gets me is this guy has a lot of money...? He dropped off the Porsche is his brand new Ford 350 truck and nice trailer...Of course considering the market for these cars, I only paid 6K for it. and it has 140k miles

[hpservertech]

$3k is pretty cheap on getting all that taken care of. Dont know how the car was described in the auction so I can't speak to that or not. All in all, the above isn't really all that bad. Yes it might not be the way it was described, $6k for a cab. is pretty damn cheap. Putting in $3k brings it up to the lower end of what they usually go for.

Having money doesn't make someone a good or smart owner. I've known guys that would by a brand new car cause they never changed the oil in their car and wondered why the engine blew.

[Z06C5R]

I got mine off of Ebay, and I'm not convinced Ebay is the best way to buy a used car. I found the description to be accurate, but fairly general - It failed to mention all the little issues with the car... Nothing serious, but some of them are kind of annoying.

Were I to do it again, I'd much prefer a traditional sale, where I don't have to worry about committing to it electronically, seperate of inspection.

[flash968]

fusco - as i said "dealerships" are becoming the problem, not small shops - there are quite a few small shops around here (los angeles) that have at least worked on these cars, but not so much anymore with the dealerships

[chrenan]

If I'm buying a used car I just assume the seller is lying. If I get a PPI I just assume the mechanic is lazy. That way I'm never dissappointed. To be honest, I've never had a PPI on a used car, I'd rather spend the hour or so looking over it carefully myself and start adding up the required maintenance in my head. If the tally gets too high I don't buy. I trust myself more than someone billing me to quickly glance at a car before they move on to more lucrative work.

When buying a 20 year old car that cost $50K+ new, spending $3K in today's dollars to get it up to snuff is not that bad. You can't have champagne tastes on a ginger ale budget. Sorry you were dissappointed with the PPI, lesson learned, if you want something done right, do it yourself.

[exitwound]

I bought my 944 on eBay for $1750, the engine in the passenger seat. I've probably spent a total (including the car) of $4-$5K returning it to working condition. There were definitely some kinks in the project tho, including having to reweld the crankshaft UP to "oversized journals" levels. How on earth?? I may or may not buy on eBay again. But I was well aware of the risk when I bought it to expect issues, just not on that level.

[Cking1975]

Really sad that people don't tell the truth...if I resold this car I would tell the buyer everything that is good and bad.

I guess I had a false sense of what I was going to do...you get this list in your head and then you realize all the stuff you want to do has to wait until you fix all the "no fun stuff". As for PPI, if you build a relationship with a good shop, they will tell you plenty of what you need to know. Im sorry, but if you cannot get a car on a lift, you cannot tell what exactly the condition of the car is. When I finally got the car on the lift, the big picture came into play.

[chrenan]

Originally Posted by Cking1975

Im sorry, but if you cannot get a car on a lift, you cannot tell what exactly the condition of the car is. When I finally got the car on the lift, the big picture came into play.

I comlpetely agree with this. If I'm serious about a car, I'll bring my 21 inch lift height jack and 6 ton jack stands and get underneath the car. If the seller doesn't want me looking under the car, I'm not interested.

[markt944]

Another thing if u buy off ebay without inspecting the car and end up winning it

Most people wouldnt hand over their hard earned if the car wasnt up to the description

who in the right mind is going to worry about being given neg feedback when £000s are at stake !


They are old cars and unless they have been enthusiast owned,u can bet a pound to a pinch of salt that its going to need work,just like any other old car


Differnce being with Porsche prices and if u are paying porsche labour $3000 dont go far


Probably the reason why people get shut to begin with ,they can be very expensive to maintain

Mark

[ColoradoSteve]

I agree it's too bad that people lie about the condition of these cars. The 944 I bought was only owned by the seller for less than a year before I bought it. He didn't really know much about the maintenance except for the fact that he hadn't done any! Carfax was helpful here because I was able to determine the correct mileage and how many owners and the length of time each had the car, no accidents, etc. I just assumed I would have to do a lot of work on the car and it's been fun and not really that expensive. I still have less than 5k invested in mine and I don't know of any other sports car, new or used that I would rather have! Also, there's no way I could get anything in this class for less than $5k. except another used 944. These cars are definitely for the DYI guys. I'm going to keep restoring mine until it looks and drives like new. Thanks to all the helpful guys on this forum, Clark's garage, and Pelican for providing this!
Steve
'83 944

[Z06C5R]

The thing that really bugs me about mine is that it ran way better when I inspected it! I started right up, ran smoothly right away, and drove fine other than vibration from bad motor-mounts. A month later, it's difficult to start (especially when cold), runs terribly for about a minute, and either idles insanely high or wanders steadily between 300 and 1000. Most likely a vacuum leak, sure, but IDK why it wouldn't have surfaced in the inspection drive, or the drive home for that matter.

I'm starting to suspect my car doesn't like me... LoL!

[legion]

To be fair, the previous owner probably didn't know about half the stuff himself. These are 20-year-old cars. Lots of stuff will fail the second they change hands. Lots more stuff is about to fail. You get a PPI to protect yourself from dishonest seller but also to find flaws the current owner may not even know about himself.

I've never seen a 944 (short of one with a recent full engine rebuild) that didn't leak oil from somewhere. A lot of what you have listed is common wear stuff. I always put new rotors pads on any used car I buy.

I spent over $5k on my car in maintenance last year. I've probably spent close to what I paid for it in maintenance in three years of ownership.

These cars are relatively cheap to buy but expensive to use. I've become accustomed to the idea that they require a few thousand dollars to fix the things you know about when you buy them. They require a few more thousand dollars to fix the things you don't know about.

I understand the frustration. I bought my first Porsche off of eBay and my second one here on Pelican. Both needed a lot more work than I anticipated--and I got a very thorough PPI the second time around.

[jbaeng]

I can relate to this story. I bought an '88 944 a few weeks ago and felt at the time i handed over the cash it would be a mistake. I just figured since I got the car for $1300, I would tow it home and take a chance (a bad water pump made it not drivable). I had a 911 that I sold about a year ago so I was looking for another car to spice up my life. I looked at the car carefully but figured I would just make it a project. What I didn't appreciate was how the car was made that there are many areas where age can introduce numerous points of failure (electrically actuated things vs. manual operation). for example: the sunroof motor does not work, the hatch unlatches on bumpy curves (I've tried to adjust it), the headlight retraction motor does not work,the ventilation system blows warm air all the time just to name a few, the list goes on and on. I've been through Clark's Garage, factory manuals, and Pelican Parts. I certainly feel I have been educated about 944's in the last few weeks (I replaced the water pump, belts and hoses). It does run and i have driven it a bit. When it runs well, there is nothing like it! It'd kind of like the women in your life (my wife)...always needs input and maintenance, but when it goes well, well i think you guys get the picture. I've been tempted to dump it for parts, but I'm going to keep at it. I couldn't even imagine paying a shop to do all the required repairs!