Post Reseal Oil Pressure Question

monknomo · 07-16-2008, 03:09 PM

I just finished replacing my water pump, refreshing my front seals and doing my timing and balance belts. On starting the car I'm not getting any oil pressure. I've searched and just want to confirm my trouble-shooting steps.

The car has sat without moving for something like 6 months, so I figure it is possible the oil pump lost its prime. The way you deal with that is putting oil down the skinny tube where the filter goes and turning the engine backwards, right? My question is about how much oil and how much of a turn?

The next possible culprit is the OPRV. I took mine out to see whether I have the three piece or the one piece and if it was clean or not. I have the three piece and it looked clean. I put it back in, and I'm pretty sure I torqued it to spec. Is it possible or likely that I a) got dirt in the OPRV so it is sticking or b) didn't torque it right (if so, does that affect oil pressure?). How would I check the OPRV's operation?

I guess the third option is I didn't torque the crankshaft bolt down tight enough. It is 150 ft-lbs, right? Of course, my large torque wrench is an old fashioned spring style one, so my torque value might be inaccurate. I guess to double check that, I'd give the bolt a little more of a turn with the flywheel lock on.

Finally, there is some possibility that I didn't do the oil pump drive gear arrangement correctly. Just to double check, is this how it goes together: Drive gear, teeth rotated such that they slide all the way down the crank shaft into the seal; o-ring into the drive gear bevel; washer (is this washer directional? I tried to maintain the same orientation, but I'm not 100% certain that I did); belt gears; alternator pulley; (I neglected to put on the power steering pulley since I did a power steering delete, but I've heard of other people doing this and not having trouble); thick washer with a bevel, wide side facing the engine, narrow side/bevel facing the bolt; bolt.

The important part of that question, I guess, is "Which washer has a specific direction it must face again?" I'm not sure I understand the other posts.

Is there anything I'm missing? Also, how long does it usually take for an engine to gain oil pressure after a complete drain and some months of sitting? I haven't run it for more than a second or two for fear of damage (I did try to start it three times on two separate days, though).

Thanks!

John_AZ · 07-16-2008, 03:28 PM

1.Remove the DME until you get oil pressure-
2.Make sure your car is level and not on ramps.
3.Do not grind the starter for long periods.
4.Remove the oil filter and prime the oil pump with a cup of oil directly in tube.
5.Put a half cup in the camshaft-open one plug on top

Believe that you have done a correct job!

John_AZ
1988 924S + 1987 924S

bazar01 · bazar01's Garage

Quote:

Originally Posted by monknomo

(I neglected to put on the power steering pulley since I did a power steering delete, but I've heard of other people doing this and not having trouble); thick washer with a bevel, wide side facing the engine, narrow side/bevel facing the bolt; bolt.

Thanks!

Do not start the car until you put the power steering pulley back on. !!!
The power steering pulley puts pressure on the oil pump drive gear and I bet you can move the crank pulley in and out by about 2 mm without it.

monknomo · 07-16-2008, 04:39 PM

Actually, I can't budge the crank pulley without the power steering pulley. I've seen enough other people who have deleted theirs ( http://forums.rennlist.com/rennforums/showthread.php?t=420251&highlight=ps+pulley) to not be overly concerned. Also, I can't seem to find a different part number for the crank bolt, and it seems like if this were an issue, there would be a different crank bolt number, or a different washer number, since power steering was an option on these cars.

Of course, if it breaks or I never do get oil pressure, I'll try putting the pulley back on or regretting my hubris.

About these cam tower ports? I've heard of them, but I haven't been able to find them in a diagram, and I'm afraid to just go pulling bolts and pouring oil in the holes.

Should I pour some oil down the spark plug holes?

Also, rather than unplugging the DME (which I think is a pain in the butt, plus I don't like the risk of connector damage), do you think unplugging the DME relay would be sufficient?

John_AZ · 07-16-2008, 04:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by monknomo

About these cam tower ports? I've heard of them, but I haven't been able to find them in a diagram, and I'm afraid to just go pulling bolts and pouring oil in the holes.

Should I pour some oil down the spark plug holes?

Also, rather than unplugging the DME (which I think is a pain in the butt, plus I don't like the risk of connector damage), do you think unplugging the DME relay would be sufficient?

I should have been more accurate=DME relay, sorry. Yes pull, you should be able to see (oil pressure guage) pressure building then replace.
No oil down plugs.
The cam tower has 6 plugs on top to get at the cam tower bolts. I think 10mm allen will work. Put in 4oz. oil.
Remove the oil filter and put 1 cup of oil in the big hole in the center.

Car flat or oil pickup will suck air in crankcase.

Are you using a synthetic? I would use regular oil like Castrol 20-50 GTX for the first start and then you can change to a synthetic. With your new gaskets there should be NO leaks.

I am sure you will succeed. When you do, the lifters will chatter for 3 to 5 minutes until they refill. This is OK. The oil you put in the cam will help lube the lifters and camshaft until all is good.

John_AZ

monknomo · 07-16-2008, 05:20 PM

Thanks for the reply, you've given me some great advice! I feel pretty confident to get this to pump up!

JonA · 07-16-2008, 05:31 PM

How do you know you are not getting oil pressure? Is your gauge reading correctly? Did you do anything to the sender?

Jon

monknomo · 06:37 PM

I think I can be pretty sure I'm not getting oil pressure from the fact that the oil pressure gauge worked before I resealed the front, I didn't mess with the sender and it was empty of oil for quite a while while I worked on it, and then I didn't try to start it for quite a while. So, the sender ought to still be working (I hope). Also, I think I've read that the sender is designed to fail in a n "indicate 5 bars of pressure" mode.

That and it had quite a "no oil" sort of sound when I started it. Hopefully not a "I bent all my valves sound," and more of a "no oil/empty lifters" kind of noise. Seriously, though, I checked the timing marks and it is still on, so it is just not building pressure yet. I'd go put John's suggestions in to practice, but it is dark and I'm working outside.

And reading this again, I'm not trying to be snotty or anything. I've been there when you think something is wrong and it is nothing. Like when I thought I had a hunting idle becuase the engine was sort of rough and the tach bounced all over the place. I was afraid it'd redline accidentally, but then I cleaned the bellhousing ground and everything worked fine.

I felt silly after that...

Slam · 07-17-2008, 11:17 AM

I'd make sure the crank bolt was the right one for the job and torque that baby on again. It's one of the usual suspects.

Just my $.02.

onZedge · 07-17-2008, 01:51 PM

If you remove the PS pulley, make sure you are using the "B" washer.

I HAVE to figure out how to resize these things...

monknomo · 07-17-2008, 02:03 PM

Good call onZedge, I'll have to consult my teardown photos to see what I have in there.

white944cup · white944cup's Garage

When I did mine, I had good oil pressure at first, but when I started it the next day, the oil light came on and the gage showed no oil pressure. After verifying the pressure sender connections, I removed the 3 piece OPRV and found some minor lateral scoring in the "in-out" direction on the outside surface of the plug which suggested that the plug might be binding in the bore. I noticed that the plug also had a pretty sharp edge (no radius) on the outside corners. I polished the OD of the plug by chucking it in a drill motor and polishing with progressively finer sandpaper and scotchbrite until I had removed all the score marks and obtained a mirror finish. Then I put a nice full radius on the corners with a file and polished those too. I greased it well, reassembled, and re-verified the alignment with the special tool. Started it up and the oil pressure was once again great. Good luck.

rudidelange · 07-18-2008, 10:02 AM

have a look at
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/showthread.php?t=294591

monknomo · 07-21-2008, 03:46 PM

Well, it looks like I do have the B type washer installed (those disassembly pics are where it is at). I doubled checked my crank bolt torque all the same and my torque wrench says it's 150ftlbs. I gave it a degree or two more, just to be sure (150ftlbs is at the limit of my torque wrench's reading, so accuracy may be poor).

On a whim I decided to double check the OPRV. Good thing I did, because it looks like the green o-ring on the end escaped reassembly. Now I have to figure out where I put it. I knew the dang thing would just cause me trouble if I took it off.

I took the opportunity to crank the engine over and determine if any oil spurts from the hole. No oil- so I think I can say the pump is not primed, because it is surely appropriately attached and torqued. I'll try rudidelange's method of priming, it sounds very thorough.

Also, before I get too caught up, any thoughts on whether my missing o-ring could cause no oil pressure. From my understanding of the OPRV, it seems like that might cause an over pressure.

Spidey944 · 07-22-2008, 09:02 AM

it would cause no oil pressure for about 30 seconds. Then when the car is shut off, you would lose all the pressure very quickly.

monknomo · 07-28-2008, 03:26 PM

Okay, I've followed the pump priming advice and I do have some oil pressure now. Sorta. What I managed to get is a spike up to 1, then it fell back to about .5 and quivered between .5 and 1 after that. I shut it off after a few moments. I'm pretty sure this means I have some oil pressure.

How long should I let it idle to build up pressure? I haven't hit the 20 second mark yet. Also, if I have really low oil pressure like this (that is, I have oil pressure, but it never gets up to a good level), is it probably something wrong with the OPRV? Could I have screwed it in wrong (I don't know, maybe it is possible. That last 1/8 inch of threads were harder to get in than I think they should have been).

John_AZ · 07-28-2008, 04:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by white944cup

When I did mine, I had good oil pressure at first, but when I started it the next day, the oil light came on and the gage showed no oil pressure. After verifying the pressure sender connections, I removed the 3 piece OPRV and found some minor lateral scoring in the "in-out" direction on the outside surface of the plug which suggested that the plug might be binding in the bore. I noticed that the plug also had a pretty sharp edge (no radius) on the outside corners. I polished the OD of the plug by chucking it in a drill motor and polishing with progressively finer sandpaper and scotchbrite until I had removed all the score marks and obtained a mirror finish. Then I put a nice full radius on the corners with a file and polished those too. I greased it well, reassembled, and re-verified the alignment with the special tool. Started it up and the oil pressure was once again great. Good luck.

Monknomo, White944cup has a good write up here on his fix. He also used the alignment tool for the OPRV. Do you have this? I am concerned about the question you have about the last 1/8 turn of the OPRV. Something does not fit right. Of course it may just be a piece of grime on the threads that makes it hard to turn in. Check the alignment. Did you ever have the oil cooler seals replaced?

John_AZ

monknomo · 04:10 PM

No, I haven't fiddled with any of the oil cooler seals. That was more than I wanted to deal with. I do happen to have an alignment tool handy, so I'll check that out.

As to the OPRV, I assumed it was a bit of grit in the threads at the time, but I get nervous immediately after putting anything back together unless it works right off.

Update: It was the OPRV. I got out my dental pick and flashlight, fished a couple pieces of sand out, put it all back together and it fired right back up (after I remembered the driveway is on a slant and I have to jack the rear up a little).

Thanks for all the help