A/C Leak Question

[LifterEyes]

I was able to pull the condenser the other day because I had to straighten out a few things, including one of the brackets that holds the condenser in place, and the condenser is pretty bent but I can't see any evidence of cracks or leaks on it. Are these things pretty resilient to leaks from bending? I've attached a picture below.

Originally Posted by mattdavis11

All compressors are designed to do the same thing, it's the oil and freon that are different, nothing else. I didn't ever flush my lines, I just resealed the compressor and put in pag oil and charged with 134. I know I have two different kinds of oil in the system but it's worked great for 7 years now. Reseal your compressor for $10-15 bucks (at the most) and save a ton. It's not very hard, getting the clutch off the nose of the compressor is the hardest part. Otherwise send it to me, I'll do it.

I have not replaced but a few orings, one at the condenser, and ones at the compressor. That's what, 3 orings? If they don't leak, don't open the system where you don't need to.

Also, where did you buy the seal kit for your compressor?

Thanks!

[John_AZ]

I'll add a couple of thoughts before Matt replies.

Matt is an AC professional. With his knowledge and tools, what would take him 30 minutes will take you a weekend. There is a special tool to remove the clutch pully as Matt mentioned. If you are in the rust belt it may never come off.

Back to the Q. You can get the seals and if you want to do a brilliant job, replace the races at Griffiths ---order the correct kit --example:

Porsche Nippondenso Compressor 10P15 Seal Kit compressor seals, nippondenso, denso, seal kits, air conditioning compressor seals, 10p15c seal kits, 10p15e seal kits, 924s seals, 944 seals, 911 seals, 930 seals, 911 compressor seal kits, 930 compresso

I am sure Matt can do better.

GL
John_AZ

[mattdavis11]

I would have the condenser pressure tested. This can be done by yourself if you have a vat, compressed air, and a way to plug one side where one of the fitting attaches, the other attachment needs to have a special plate that you can use to pressurize the condenser. I doubt you would have one, I don't at the moment either.

I buy all my seals from Santech out of Fort Worth. Automotive Air Conditioning Components : Santech Industries, Inc.
You are looking for a case seal and shaft seal kit for a Nippondenso 10P 15E compressor. If you can't buy from them without an account and don't want to set one up, let me know, I can get you what you need. I actually have one shaft seal kit at home. The part number is KO 20 something, but it's probably been superseded by a new one. They have all the tools you need as well. Santech is pretty much the king of ac sealing and rebuilding products. Dallas/Ft Worth is the AC capitol of the world, if you can't find what you need there, you're searching for a dusty box buried in a warehouse in Germany.

I can also get you a condenser, it is special order for me at $140 to your door. They are semi pliable, but be careful. If you skip the aforementioned pressure test you may get lucky in finding that the system holds a vacuum after you seal everything up.

Let me know if I can help in any way.

[mattdavis11]

Thanks John_AZ, it takes me a good while too as I enjoy the projects, but moreso the beer that accompanies said projects. I havea friends Volvo S70 getting a full ac job (minus the evaporator and condenser) that I started at 2pm yesterday, I'll finish it sometime today. I got lucky with not having to replace the condenser as very little metal was on the orifice tube and it is a microtube condenser that can not be flushed. We can flush ours, but our compressors aren't prone to grenading, so we really don't have to worry about it.

[LifterEyes]

Originally Posted by mattdavis11

There will be no repercussions if you flush lines right away and cap them unless you let it sit. An acid is made when you expose a/c parts that have seen R134a, pag 46 and oxygen\humidity. If you let it sit, you expose yourself to corrosive damage. I didn't check to see if you have converted to 134.

If you understand the temperature at which moisture boils in a vacuum, the drier could still be good to go unless the compressor disintegrated and shot metal slivers down the line. You shouldn't flush a drier, and they are cheap, but I haven't changed mine.

Flushing always consists of moving solvent (I like denatured alcohol) the opposite direction of the travel of the oil and refrigerant. Think thumb releases in a timely fashion, when the pressure builds, release away from your eyes and face. Wear protective eye wear.

We are lucky to not have parallel flow, or micro tube condensers.

Actually, I know it's been converted to 134 but i don't know if it has ever been charged with 134. As far as I know the previous owner just added the adapters and never had it charged.

Also, I think I've decided to just go and buy a rebuilt compressor and make it easy on myself. I found a seller who will sell me a rebuilt compressor for $200 and is offering to buy back the core as well. He asked me how much I want for the core, what do you guys think a fair price would be?

[mattdavis11]

No idea, it used to be wash on the core charge if they can be rebuilt, which most can with our compressors. Demand for cores has gone up. I'd hold on to it. For $5-10 in parts you have a spare.

[LifterEyes]

Originally Posted by mattdavis11

Flushing always consists of moving solvent (I like denatured alcohol) the opposite direction of the travel of the oil and refrigerant. Think thumb releases in a timely fashion, when the pressure builds, release away from your eyes and face. Wear protective eye wear.

Hey Matt,

Thanks again for all the help.

I have my new compressor and a new drier ready and I just need to flush the lines before I can go to get it charged. I'm dreading this part because it seems like the biggest pain. How do I go about flushing the lines with denatured alcohol? Might be a dumb question but, do I need any special equipment or is it as easy as pouring it down the hose?

[mattdavis11]

Nope, no different. I have a flush bottle that hooks up to compressed air. It has a nozzle with a rubber tip. That's all I use. You can pour it down the line or spray it down the line, your choice. It's faster with a flush bottle. Every parts store has them.

[LifterEyes]

I was able to flush the condenser and some of the easy to get to lines in the front of the car. At that point, I decided that was enough and installed my new compressor and drier and decided to bring it in to be charged. What they found was that the condenser, although bent, still held pressure BUT they discovered a new leak in the area of the evaporator! Ugh...

With that said, Is there any way possible to replace the evaporator without removing the WHOLE Heating-A/C unit?

Originally Posted by John_AZ

my underdash blower, evaporator and expansion valve unit comes out in 45 minutes. You are not so lucky.

GL
John_AZ

[John_AZ]

Before you remove the entire dash to check or replace the evaporator.

I would remove the heater blower motor in the rear center top of the engine compartment

You will have access to the expansion valve that sits next to the evaporator. Your problem may only be the seals on the expansion valve. If you are very lucky.

With the blower motor out you can get the seals replaced and have the tech use an electronic sniffer to see if the evaporator is bad when he does a leak down and refill.

OR, you could just begin to remove the entire dash on the late 944...
http://tech.rennlist.com/924_944/porsche944dashremovalinstallation.pdf


The early 944s and the 924Ss---the entire blower, evaporator, expansion valve and housing comes out from under the glove box in about 45 minutes.

This is not the case with the late 944s.

mattdavis11 may have another solution.

GL
John

[mattdavis11]

With out knowing what they did, I would first suspect the compressor. Who knows, they may have shot it full of nitrogen and tested for leaks and when they saw none with soap/water mixture in spray bottle, they said evaporator. There have been times where a shaft seal leaks slightly because the oring didn't get seated properly, hadn't been oiled prior to installation, or a groove on the shaft didn't get polished out, but they seal up nicely when rotated and oil/refrigerant circulate. If you bought a brand new compressor (probably not) the shaft seal could be rotten. That's a hard to find slow leak on the compressor because of the clutch.

What I'm guessing you could be up against, is a shop that didn't get to sell you any parts and could be trying to convince you something else may be wrong.

Has the compressor cycled? That meaning, refrigerant has been introduced, the system cooled, shut down and engaged again when it should?

I have no idea what they did. If they put dye in the system, you should be able to see it with the naked eye, but a pair of yellow tinted protective goggles and a black light helps.

[LifterEyes]

Originally Posted by John_AZ

Before you remove the entire dash to check or replace the evaporator.

I would remove the heater blower motor in the rear center top of the engine compartment

You will have access to the expansion valve that sits next to the evaporator. Your problem may only be the seals on the expansion valve. If you are very lucky.

With the blower motor out you can get the seals replaced and have the tech use an electronic sniffer to see if the evaporator is bad when he does a leak down and refill.

OR, you could just begin to remove the entire dash on the late 944...
http://tech.rennlist.com/924_944/porsche944dashremovalinstallation.pdf


The early 944s and the 924Ss---the entire blower, evaporator, expansion valve and housing comes out from under the glove box in about 45 minutes.

This is not the case with the late 944s.

mattdavis11 may have another solution.

GL
John

Thanks John, I guess I'll check there first. I would assume though that, if the expansion valve seals have been leaking for some time, I would be able to see some indication of oil or residue around the connections correct?

In response to Matt: I'm not sure if they injected a dye or not. I suppose I can try to find out exactly how they diagnosed the leak in the evaporator first to make sure they didn't just assume it was there. Also, as far as I know the compressor hasn't been cycled.

[looneybin]

i have a rebuilt compressor i'd like to install, but how do you unplug the electrical connection from the compressor, it seems to have a metal clip that goes around the compressor with metal ears that are going into the plug.

[John_AZ]

If you are not talking about the main compressor 12V single wire-----I guess you are referring to the connection at the clutch coil.

It does not come off.

Or I am confused...

John

[looneybin]

there is only 1 plug i can see, it's at the front next to the pulley.
if it does not come off, how do you remove the compressor?

[John_AZ]

That is the Clutch Coil wire. The coil activates the clutch and the compressor spins.

The compressor, coil and clutch usually are sold as a unit.

Take the compressor-with the pully attached out. If you buy a compressor without a clutch/pully attached you take it to a shop with special tools to remove it. OH, it can be done at home if not rusted on but a shop will take a couple of minutes.

Try to get a rebuilt, guaranteed used compressor with a clutch installed.

GL
John

[looneybin]

my question is how do you unplug the wire so i can take the compressor out.
do i have to just cut it, or is there a plug connection somewhere upstream i'm not seeing.

[John_AZ]

The main wire should be a male and female spade connection about 18"-24" from the coil/pully along the frame held by tie wraps.

[looneybin]

thanks John, i'll trace the wire back until i find it

[mattdavis11]

There's one sure fire way to find it, remove the mounting bolts, remove the ac lines from the top of the compressor and it'll be the the wire that won't let you haul it out from under the car.