Porsche has 16 overall wins in the prototype class at LeMans. 20,000 racing wins in the lesser categories of endurance racing. More wins in the sport than any other manufacturer.
I'm not concerned with the C5R, C6R, ZR1 or any other Chevrolet. I wasn't aware Chevy had many P1 or P2 wins if any. Prototype racing is top of the sport. That's what counts. Again, this is a Porsche forum.
I guess I just don't understand the mentality. Porsches are pretty awesome on their own. I can't see changing them to something that is mediocre and run of the mill just for horsepower. I think I kind of explained that in an earlier comment here. A Porsche is supposed to be symbolic for the success to be able to afford high technology. It's one thing to improve that high technology, but taking away from it by using an engine with half of the innovation as the original power plant is a step backwards. Isn't the LS still a pushrod engine? lol
I like the white car with the Audi 5 cylinder. That is a pretty awesome build. I'm not much for engine swaps, but that one looks good. With the 944 being built at Audi, and Audi having a significant prototype racing career that's acceptable even in my book. I like it infact.
Can you cite which Ferrari, Skoda, Lancia, or Alfa had a rear transmission, and a front engine? I must have missed something.
I don't care what Triumph did either. The TR7 was junk with an aluminum head and a steel block. The TR8 with it's rover engine didn't solve anything either as stated above with the head gaskets and liner problems. Hell, the only thing the TR6 had was looks. That's more than I can say for any other Triumph other than a TR3.
They are all English and used sorry Lucas electronics.
Do what you want to your 944. Put a Ford flat head in it if you want. See if I care. Just don't expect that it will have value as a Porsche.

Alfa Alfetta/GTV

The 928 was initially a design study in 1971. Alfetta was 72. Alfa or not Porsche definitely made the rear transmission mainstream by mass producing it, and had the best layout and suspension. I don't see too many Alfa Alfettas running around. Not many winning SCCA events. :)

I believe the point is people who are swapping for anything at all but a Porsche engine (for a variety of reasons outlined already) don't value the racing history of Porsche as you do with regard to modifying your own car. You don't need championship wins to have passionate and enthusiastic fans - just look at the Chicago cubs.

I'll give you that. Not many people on here have owned twelve Porsches either. I guess it's just disheartening when I go look at a project car from the 1960's or 70's and the original engine is gone, or replaced with something else. I walk away 100% of the time when that happens. It just costs so much to buy correct power plants for cars, and all of the collectors want matching numbers. I'm a product of my experience with selling cars.

so howabout the flying lizard team winning LM races with a cayenne motor :p

Transaxle - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

:p

Interesting. I think I knew the Tempest had a transaxle. Still the only modern American car, but interesting to know that the Stutz Bearcat used one. The wicked endurance racing success of the 1961 Pontiac Tempest must have been what made GM design a new transaxle for the Corvette right? :D It's just a coincidence that the transmission in the Vette looks almost identical to the 928's. Both the automatic, and the standard Vette transaxles are designed virtually identical to the automatic and standard 928 transmissions. They look like they might almost fit in a 928.
Screw all of this engine swap crap. I'm going to put a Vette transmission in a 928. Just to show how easy it is. lol
I'm not adverse to Porsche using V8's by any means. My partner and I have owned several 928's and some of them that I've driven are real monsters. 170-180mph cars. The old defunct Devek company got a 928S4 to over 200mph. I'd say with some tuning and work you could get a 928S4 from 1987 to give a new Vette a run for it's money. Top speed wise I mean. That is if the pushrods in the Vette hold up. :)

Actually Alfa won a lot of touring car races in Europe using their transaxle.Their manual shift was not nearly as good as the Porsche onwe however. Volvo also had a rear transaxle in some of their sedans: maybe they didnt sell them in the US.

Toyota Corona:



http://aircobra.su/sites/default/files/porche1.jpg

Another AAN Audi 5cyl 20v Turbo:
http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-FOcHBt3D6H.../engineBay.jpg

Audi V8:
http://lh3.ggpht.com/_JHxBd5KGvYE/TJ.../Photo0097.jpg

Audi 10v 5cyl turbo swap:

http://www.pelicanparts.com/MotorCity/cbass/niklas1.jpg

Another 5cyl 20v turbo swap (hopefully, among other things he turned the tires to correct rotation):

http://www.porsche-ccm.ru/forum/uplo...1243187780.jpg

Air cooled flat six turbooooo

http://forums.rennlist.com/rennforum...rcooled-03.jpg

Water under the bridge - and I think we see more eye to eye on it than you think. An LS or other swap would ruin any collectible value of the car (but that isn't the topic at hand). Even if it were the topic, I'd focus my collectible concerns on cars that aren't the forgotten step-son of the marque. (There are some collectible 924/944/968/928 models, but not the average one.)

Another Toyota Turbo:

http://i102.photobucket.com/albums/m...r/DSCN1005.jpg

Buick GN Turbo
http://carphotos.cardomain.com/ride_...0003_large.jpg

http://carphotos.cardomain.com/ride_..._large.jpg?v=1

The Yankees do a pretty solid job too:

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-k1C5FXjbcj...M/s1600/1a.jpg

;)

someone should put the audi 4.2 liter V8 in these cars. man that would be a fun one!

Are you saying my Guards Red '88 944 Turbo with black interior isn't collectable or rare?? **** i got ripped off! :eek:

But if it has a V8 it must be a pile of crap.

Such a gorgeous car... visual aides like this might help here for skeptics. Sure, there are basket cases and work in progress photos that aren't concourse level presentations. There are also plenty of top notch efforts out there that are lumped with the others by the haters.

Sorry to be the bearer of bad news. My 951 is #'s matching, as a favor I'll trade you...

Beyond a cage, what other chassis mods (excluding shock/springs) are there? I would be curious about low hanging fruit for higher powered cars. Upper stress bars, larger sway bars, seam welding the pinch joints... is there more for this chassis?

Ok, here is an actual weight of an LS1 with accessories, intake manifold, exhaust headers, crossmember, and light weight clutch (total flywheel clutch combo is 32 lbs). That puts my LS at 405 as it sits in the car. I can't believe that I don't have a weight pic of a 968 engine considering how many I killed over the years SmileWavy

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1397829696.jpg

the porsche weight numbers are with flywheel, clutch, AC and alternator. your 437# is what i expected to see. adding in the AC and alternator (which i don't see in that pic) would make your engine about 460lbs. that is 100# more than a 944 engine and 80# more than a 968 engine. that is before adding the larger cooling and bracing and such.

bang on what i have always said. thanks

Alternator is on the engine, located on the drivers side down low. No AC or power steering pump. But it also has exhaust headers and crossmember bolted on, so subtract off that weight.

Although I did not weigh the supercharged 968 engine that this one replaced, I can tell you that there was virtually no difference in car weight between the SC-968 powered car and the LS-powered car.

yeah - a centrifugal SC kit complete adds about 40#. it would be down to around 40-50# difference, plus the weight of the added cooling capacity and bracing for the torque, which would tend to be about another 30-40#. not the end of the world, and pretty easy to rebalance by merely moving the battery to the rear. the big differences are when talking about going from a normally aspirated 944 to a V8, which is what most of the guys are doing.

of course then you need to add in the weight of the larger brakes to stop the faster car (no matter what power plant), the heavier axles, larger sway bars, yada yada. it all adds up. but then, that's a large part of why cars today are so much heavier, in spite of the lighter materials. the chassis are stiffer, brakes are bigger, and everything else that makes the cars so much better built. no free lunch

i think one of the first things i'd do with a high-power engine would be making a subframe of sorts linking all the suspension points and large bolts on the body, mounted underneath, to add some stiffness without intruding like a cage.

paired with one of your interior roll bars, flash, it could make a big difference. you still make those?

agreed. the bottom of these cars is pretty flexy. makes for a very comfortable ride, but being a unibody design, there are limits to what it can absorb and transfer.

yes, i still make them, but they are done to order. i don't really stock anything anymore, and anything i do now is based on advanced orders. keeps the wife happy that way, as i'm not constantly messing with cars anymore.

Will stock tires even put down enough power to twist the chassis? Somehow I doubt it...

There's always traction control and proper tire size... exactly how new high HP, OEM manufactured cars do it.

traction control stems out of federally required stability control for new cars after 2010? iirc.


the king of V8 944s, a back-halfed 944 with 997GT3 suspension/brakes all around, recently discovered that the torque tube bows under high load.

as in, the 6 ft steel pipe in the middle of the car actually bends upwards in the middle due to countertorque from the axles, twisting the transaxle.

so yea, the chassis will flex and twist.

not something id worry about so much, since he's over 6.5L and pushing in the mid 600s HP, but if it happens to him, it happens on the other cars, just less.

yup - i can feel the shaft inside flexing at only a bit over 300 lb/ft, and i have super bearings and everything. much more than that and i think i'd break something soon enough. when i thought about pushing bigger numbers, i toyed around with the idea of reworking the whole assembly, going carbon fiber on the tube, a tubular shaft, and all that, but bailed when i thought about it and realized i couldn't actually use the power i already had, let alone go for more.

had i the time and budget, i'd look into thickening the walls of the tube and fitting a larger, hollow driveshaft (aluminum perhaps?)

the TT is just the right size (3.48" iirc) to fit a 3.5" ID schedule 40 steel pipe around snugly and weld together for extra stiffness. good luck bending that thing...probably break off the cast Al first.

I would think you could gusset the tube full length in a couple places to stiffen it up if that became the fuse.

Hmm, lets see. I am using a TT from the 924S that I bought years ago. I first used the car as a DE car, then added a 968 engine to that car and raced it for years. After totaling the car, I moved as much as I could to a roller 944S, including moving the TT. That car was raced with an SC-968 engine for 2 years before switching to an LS1 engine. I've been going strong with the LS for 3+ years, both racing and DE's, still using that same TT that has never been rebuilt. Guess my ass is not as sensitive, because if that TT is flexing, I sure don't feel it.

like i said, if it's happening to him, then it's going to be happening to the rest of us, just to lesser degrees due to variances in amount of torque output...he is running about the stickiest tires there are though which contributes alot to the counterforce.

chances are your LS1 isn't over 600HP/550ftlbs, i assume...but even at 350-400, on street tires, it *should* be happening, but not enough to worry about.

I can feel the windup from the 968 DMF under certain circumstances, I am not sure how one could feel the torque shaft flex with that in play.

i had a solid flywheel for quite a while. pretty easy to feel, and the reason i went to super bearings, which helped but did not eliminate it. i have since changed back to the DMF, and don't notice it as much, but it's still there.