16 Valve Engine Rebuild for $2000?

[Mike_944]

It's been a loooong time since I've been on this forum or even looked at my 1987 944S but I am finally ready to start digging into my junkyard find.

I had deemed the car to have a blown head gasket and some leaking gaskets but it does start and seem to be a solid engine otherwise.

I have a budget of about $2000 and I would like to rebuild the engine as much as possible, if possible with that budget. I would be removing the engine from the car.

Roughly, what could I get done with that budget with me doing the labor myself?
Is is enough to get the car driveable?

Thanks!

[9FF]

Its the WYIT jobs that will eat away at your budget. You will want to do belts, rollers and water pump & obviously the leaking head gasket as a priority. The cam cover, AOS seals and sump gasket are areas prone to oil leaks on an old engine, nothing too costly there. While you have the sump off you would be a fool not to do the rod bearings and while the head is off get the chain guide changed on the 16v. Also with the engine out the motor mounts should be changed and the clutch examined for excessive wear. The two fuel hoses going to the fuel rail should definately be changed plus the jumper line. Personally I would also send the injectors to be professionally refurbished and fit back with new seals.

Imo this is the minimum you should do and as you can see the jobs start to mount up, especially if you find other worn items like the clutch, ps lines, vacuum hoses, coolant hoses, etc. Plus you have to buy all the regular service items like oil, filters and plugs. Also, how are the brakes, suspension, exhaust, etc?

I think you will burn through you $2k budget very quickly and will need to add funds to get the car where you want it to be.

[ckelly78z]

Definately do the belts, rollers, WP, and head gasket. The belts not ony go bad from mileage, but also from time, so if it's been 5 years, regardless of mileage, they need changed. Motor mounts should be thought of at this time also, they tend to start sagging at this age. Inspect all hoses and drive belts, change all fluids and flush the radiator.

I would hold off on clutch and carrier bearings unless it needs them because that could blow most of your budget.

[v2rocket_aka944]

In 2006 I had a bad HG and oil cooler so I did a full rebuild. But the car had been sitting for 7 years and ran on 3 cylinders at the time.

But I have to ask you - if the engine runs well otherwise, and you suspect a bad HG - why do a full rebuild?

I think $2000 is sufficient to do the rebuild if you are patient with your parts selection - keep looking, don't just buy things in a "kit", once in a while individual parts come cheaper.

If it needs a clutch, most of the time you can get the flywheel/pressure plate machined down and just need a fresh clutch disc - the 944 clutch disc is able to be re-lined for under $100 and be good as new.

I am in NW LA, if you need any help I only need an excuse to come out to SLO.

[Mike_944]

Originally Posted by 9FF

Its the WYIT jobs that will eat away at your budget. You will want to do belts, rollers and water pump & obviously the leaking head gasket as a priority. The cam cover, AOS seals and sump gasket are areas prone to oil leaks on an old engine, nothing too costly there. While you have the sump off you would be a fool not to do the rod bearings and while the head is off get the chain guide changed on the 16v. Also with the engine out the motor mounts should be changed and the clutch examined for excessive wear. The two fuel hoses going to the fuel rail should definately be changed plus the jumper line. Personally I would also send the injectors to be professionally refurbished and fit back with new seals.

Imo this is the minimum you should do and as you can see the jobs start to mount up, especially if you find other worn items like the clutch, ps lines, vacuum hoses, coolant hoses, etc. Plus you have to buy all the regular service items like oil, filters and plugs. Also, how are the brakes, suspension, exhaust, etc?

I think you will burn through you $2k budget very quickly and will need to add funds to get the car where you want it to be.

Thanks for the advice! I'm more concerned about getting the hard to do jobs done that are in the engine bay while the engine is out. I expect there to be hoses and what not to be changed but that can be done after the fact.

I am just looking for engine components right now. Suspension is fine for now and I'll be fixing the brakes but that's not included in my budget. I have a separate budget for that. lol I just want to get the car driveable.

[Mike_944]

Originally Posted by ckelly78z

Definately do the belts, rollers, WP, and head gasket. The belts not ony go bad from mileage, but also from time, so if it's been 5 years, regardless of mileage, they need changed. Motor mounts should be thought of at this time also, they tend to start sagging at this age. Inspect all hoses and drive belts, change all fluids and flush the radiator.

I would hold off on clutch and carrier bearings unless it needs them because that could blow most of your budget.

Thanks for the advice! Definitely things I will be changing.

Originally Posted by v2rocket_aka944

In 2006 I had a bad HG and oil cooler so I did a full rebuild. But the car had been sitting for 7 years and ran on 3 cylinders at the time.

But I have to ask you - if the engine runs well otherwise, and you suspect a bad HG - why do a full rebuild?

I think $2000 is sufficient to do the rebuild if you are patient with your parts selection - keep looking, don't just buy things in a "kit", once in a while individual parts come cheaper.

If it needs a clutch, most of the time you can get the flywheel/pressure plate machined down and just need a fresh clutch disc - the 944 clutch disc is able to be re-lined for under $100 and be good as new.

I am in NW LA, if you need any help I only need an excuse to come out to SLO.

I just want to get it as bullet proof as possible to give me more peace of mind.
Did you rebuild the 'S' model or the regular 8 valve?

I need to update my info as I'm now living in Northern San Diego. I have a feeling I'm gonna need a lot of help with this project. haha

[v2rocket_aka944]

As it happens I spend some of my time in North County SD as well

I rebuilt my 8-valve. But the consumable parts (everything below the head) are the same.

[mhariush]

$2000 should cover most of it, depending on how much you do "while you're in there". Are you a lot of work yourself?

Here's a quick overview of what I spent on my S rebuild, just in parts, and re-done head after timing belt failure (PO)

Head and Valve job with Cam tensioner 1,192.58
Water pump kit (timing belt with all new rollers, seals etc), spark plugs 710.41
Hall Sender, Timing Chain $162.98
Fuel Injectors (new) 234.60
Cam lifters (new vw) 170.00

and then there were lots of other little things

[Mike_944]

Originally Posted by v2rocket_aka944

As it happens I spend some of my time in North County SD as well

I rebuilt my 8-valve. But the consumable parts (everything below the head) are the same.

Then I think we need to be in contact!

Originally Posted by mhariush

$2000 should cover most of it, depending on how much you do "while you're in there". Are you a lot of work yourself?

Here's a quick overview of what I spent on my S rebuild, just in parts, and re-done head after timing belt failure (PO)

Head and Valve job with Cam tensioner 1,192.58
Water pump kit (timing belt with all new rollers, seals etc), spark plugs 710.41
Hall Sender, Timing Chain $162.98
Fuel Injectors (new) 234.60
Cam lifters (new vw) 170.00

and then there were lots of other little things

When I did my water pump, belts, and pulleys on my old 8-valve it only cost me about $450 as I got a rebuilt water pump. This is making me thinking this project is possible!

Did you send the head off to be rebuilt or did you rebuild it yourself?

[mhariush]

I got the waterpump kit from 944online, I am sure I could have gotten it a little cheaper.

I had the head rebuilt with Engler Bros here in Los Angeles (Santa Monica). I have never installed valves or anything like that so I decided to get it done right. I pulled the head and installed it myself.

The had job included a brand new tensioner. The tensioner was quite a bit of money but I wanted to make sure it was going to last. But I have found since then that you can buy new pads for the tensioner, so you should look into that. That should save you some cash. And you probably don't need to change injectors if they're working, so that'll save you some money too.

I'd swap the lifters, but they're cheap when you get the INA VW lifters, they're the same. I got mine from Rennbay.

[Mike_944]

What all should be changed in the head? Do I need to change the springs as well?
Links?

Also would it be wise to do anything with the cylinder walls or should it be ok as is if there is no etching?

What should be done about the power steering? I know those are prone to leaking and I want to get that sorted as well.

I really want to do this right the first time and give this car what it needs and give me some peace of mind as well that it is solid. I do have a little room to work with on the budget, that just means less parts for my ///M3.

[djnolan]

Originally Posted by Mike_944

What all should be changed in the head? Do I need to change the springs as well?
Links?

Also would it be wise to do anything with the cylinder walls or should it be ok as is if there is no etching?

What should be done about the power steering? I know those are prone to leaking and I want to get that sorted as well.

1. I had an 8v that used oil like crazy. It turned out to be one bad $2.00 valve guide seal caused by one broken inner valve spring. To replace all of the valve springs runs some money so I only replaced the broken one.

2. After replacing all of the valve guide seals, the engine doesn't use a drop of oil, so the conclusion is the cylinder walls and rings are still in good shape after 180k miles.

3. The power steering systems leak like crazy on these cars, so plan to replace all of the hoses, reseal the pump, replace the rack and replace the reservoir where the fluid filter is.

4. Don't forget cooling system hoses and air/vacuum line hoses like the AOS and ICV lines. Use spring clamps instead of barells on the air lines. Also replace the heater control valve.