It's alive!!!!!

[Anthony10370]

Wow finally got to read all the way through. This is a very interesting thread, these cars really do have some common problems haha, I can relate to many of your posts. I am very interested to see how your FD turns out. Mine (FD) was actually running fine before I refreshed the engine but I decided to hell of ditch the CIS at the first sign of trouble. My 928 had an issue with the WUR and that's when I decided to go with megasquirt. I like the idea of pressing a few buttons and changing the engine parameters without leaving the driver's seat. I understand you rebuilding the stock system though, especially being as your 928 is so early off the line.

Interesting note, my parking brake shoes are crumbled dust too, although the hardware is in better shape seeing as my 928 (0871 BTW) has spent most it's life here in rain city (no salt on the roads.) They are definitely on the list, albeit after I get the engine running nice.

Good luck, and keep posting.

[AirtekHVAC]

Thanks for the comments and input. I have had to work some late shifts and weekends, so I have not been able to do anything but run out to the shop and shoot some Kroil on top of the FD every night for the last week. Hopefully the screws will come right out. I don't want to do half of the job, so I have been waiting until I have a good half day or so. I'm hoping this Saturday will be the day. I have to work in the morning, hoping for a short morning tho.

I have some interest in the mega squirt, just don't know enough yet.

I'll definitely post when I tear into it.

[AirtekHVAC]

Update....so far, not so good....

Tore down the FD....was meticulous on every piece, and took crapload of photos...took all day, as I wanted to make a write up, for the common fixes.....it was easy to disassemble, and reassemble, and I thought to myself, "self, this is a piece of cake, anyone can do this!"...oh so wrong.....

Got it all put back together, installed it in the car at 10:00pm last night. Tried to start, just sputtered. Tried again, started and shut down right away. Turned the FD adjuster in 1/2 turn clockwise, and she started, sputtered a second or two, and died. Turned the adjuster in another 1/2 turn, and she started up, running very badly, so I turned it in a little more, and she ran much better, but started smoking like nobody's business, like I was fumigating for Mosquitos in Miami!

Also, "condensation" was pouring out the exhaust! I'm thinking wow, that is a lot of smoke and water......

I backed off on the adjuster (counter clockwise) after about 5 min of run time, and it was still smoking, and pouring out water, but started to sputter like it was going to turn off. At this point, I determine something is F'd up, as I now have a puddle on the floor, a big puddle. I shut her down...

Turns out the puddle is fuel...yup, fuel.....fuel pouring right out of the exhaust pipe.

WTF! I poured back over every picture, step by step, along with the guide from 928oc, and then the bosch manual, until 1:00 am. I then give up. I don't see what I did wrong.

When disassembled, the old distributor had (3) orifices plugged, and was full of rust and "gum". I guess it is possible that it had been adjusted so much prior, even before me, that I am now way out of whack? I dunno...I'm stumped.

[MPDano]

Originally Posted by AirtekHVAC

Update....so far, not so good....

Tore down the FD....was meticulous on every piece, and took crapload of photos...took all day, as I wanted to make a write up, for the common fixes.....it was easy to disassemble, and reassemble, and I thought to myself, "self, this is a piece of cake, anyone can do this!"...oh so wrong.....

Got it all put back together, installed it in the car at 10:00pm last night. Tried to start, just sputtered. Tried again, started and shut down right away. Turned the FD adjuster in 1/2 turn clockwise, and she started, sputtered a second or two, and died. Turned the adjuster in another 1/2 turn, and she started up, running very badly, so I turned it in a little more, and she ran much better, but started smoking like nobody's business, like I was fumigating for Mosquitos in Miami!

Also, "condensation" was pouring out the exhaust! I'm thinking wow, that is a lot of smoke and water......

I backed off on the adjuster (counter clockwise) after about 5 min of run time, and it was still smoking, and pouring out water, but started to sputter like it was going to turn off. At this point, I determine something is F'd up, as I now have a puddle on the floor, a big puddle. I shut her down...

Turns out the puddle is fuel...yup, fuel.....fuel pouring right out of the exhaust pipe.

WTF! I poured back over every picture, step by step, along with the guide from 928oc, and then the bosch manual, until 1:00 am. I then give up. I don't see what I did wrong.

When disassembled, the old distributor had (3) orifices plugged, and was full of rust and "gum". I guess it is possible that it had been adjusted so much prior, even before me, that I am now way out of whack? I dunno...I'm stumped.

Yup, this is the "exact" story" I hear about the failed rebuilds. This is the whole reason I went with sending mine in.

[Crumpler]

Hey Ron, I was saving this to cheer you up.
This is what I did to an upright freezer. I wanted a kegerator for my garage. Bought a thermostat unit and drilled one hole with a 1/4 inch bit, where I thought the coil wouldn't be....
Now I have a large white boat anchor.



I peeled the metal back afterwards, just awesome.

[AirtekHVAC]

Nice...I can fix that.....

[Crumpler]

Nice...I can fix that.....

Thanks Ron, if you were closer I would take you up on it.
Didn't want to hijack the thread, just thought it would get a chuckle.
Have a good week.

[AirtekHVAC]

It was funny, what are the odds? Couldn't have been a little higher or a little lower, huh?

I am going to tear the FD back down....I believe that I did not properly align the center assembly, missing the fuel slits orientation with the orifices in the center of the FD. I believe this is causing the fuel distributor to fill in the center, and pushing only a small amount of fuel into the injectors, with the rest pouring into the block, thus running out the exhaust.

Next step, remove the FD, disassemble, re clean, re-oring, reassemble, reinstall, drain oil, new filter, refill, and test once again.

[Anthony10370]

I am going to tear the FD back down....I believe that I did not properly align the center assembly, missing the fuel slits orientation with the orifices in the center of the FD. I believe this is causing the fuel distributor to fill in the center, and pushing only a small amount of fuel into the injectors, with the rest pouring into the block, thus running out the exhaust.

Wait- what?

I don't think this is possible. The FD is external to the engine. If it was leaking it would pour onto the block and down the side; it would pool on the floor up the front of the car.

What it sounds like to me is that the FD is pushing WAY to much fuel through the injectors and causing it to run extremely rich, causing black smoke and causing it to run poorly. With the amount of fuel you describe it is likely that this is happening more in some cylinders than others. I cant imagine an engine even running at all on that rich of a mixture in all cylinders.

Careful, with the amount of fuel you describe, it could hydro-lock the engine and bend a rod.

Look for damaged o-rings when you take it back apart. I know it has already been mentioned, but a CIS fuel pressure tester is probably a good bet because it's also possible that the fuel pressure is way too high, making the mixture mega rich.

[AirtekHVAC]

Perhaps I am mistaken....I guess it really has no where to go but into the injectors. Don't think I hydro locked anything, still turns over. I had white smoke, but it did not smell like oil in the slightest, and I have an oily pool of gas on my floor. ( well, had...it is now a dried spot of varnish like material) on a good note, I knew I had an exhaust leak in the rear somewhere....not hard to find when gas is running out of the seam where the resonator meets the rear pipe...I wish I had video of it...was a first for me, and I have seen some weird crap.

Anyway, I still believe my problem lies in the mis-alignment of the metering slits in relation to the injector orifices in the FD body. I will hopefully pull it apart tomorrow, or Saturday, at the latest.

As I reflect back on the process, that step was the only one I did not put any thought into...tapped it back into the body, and resembled, just before sticking the halves together, I popped it out and rotated it to where I thought it was oriented before, but did not double check or try to line it up...stupid mistake. I bet I am at least 1/4" off. For some reason, I was thinking it "self aligned"....

Anyway, bought new oil, and STP ZDDP additive, already got a filter....will drain and refill when I remove and tear the FD back down....probably need to clean the plugs too....

[AirtekHVAC]

Removed and Disassembled the FD again this morning. Found that I did not have the center assembly aligned well with the housing. Figures. I also found that I somehow "rolled" 3 of the rings and they were cut/damaged. Cleaned it all up and reassembled with replacement orings and copious amounts of MMO....making sure I was lined up properly, and putting the center assembly in the inverted top half thus watching each oring slide into place.....hope it got it this time. Will install this afternoon......hope it works....

Also drained all the fuel out of my motor through the oil drain plug. Got about 5 gallons out.....motor should be clean....

Refilled with oil, and drained all back out again. Installed new oil filter, and going to refill oil sump after lunch.....

On a side note, I have disassembled and repaired my MacBook Air...the battery swelled up and busted......works on charger only, battery will be here Tuesday, which means once I get this FD sorted, I can edit pictures and try to do a proper write up!

[AirtekHVAC]

UPDATE: I figured out what I did wrong with the FD. After tearing down a 4th time, while cleaning, a washer fell out. I thought , " where the **** did that come from?" After closer examination, it appears that there are thick washers under each of the 8 springs. 2 were still stuck on. How the hell did I miss that!?

So , where are the rest? I remember holding it out the shop door and blasting it with cleaner...so I begin my search in the grass...found 4 of them scattered about. Amazing after 3 weeks or so, huh?

Could not find the last one. Measured one with the caliper, and was able to stack some copper washers to equal the thickness. Reassembled and reinstalled.....need to drain the block, (again), refill the oil, and begin testing to see if I got it this time....feel pretty good about it.

[gbgastowers]

I think that was the problem. I would be hesitant to put it back together without the original or correct replacement washer. Tolerances in there aren't very forgiving

[Fixer]

Originally Posted by AirtekHVAC

UPDATE: I figured out what I did wrong with the FD. After tearing down a 4th time, while cleaning, a washer fell out. I thought , " where the **** did that come from?" After closer examination, it appears that there are thick washers under each of the 8 springs. 2 were still stuck on. How the hell did I miss that!?

So , where are the rest? I remember holding it out the shop door and blasting it with cleaner...so I begin my search in the grass...found 4 of them scattered about. Amazing after 3 weeks or so, huh?

Could not find the last one. Measured one with the caliper, and was able to stack some copper washers to equal the thickness. Reassembled and reinstalled.....need to drain the block, (again), refill the oil, and begin testing to see if I got it this time....feel pretty good about it.

It's so easy to lose hardware, I couldn't believe i lost (for a minute or two) a 4 inch half shaft bolt in my tiny garage. Boy did i curse.

[AirtekHVAC]

Yea, as I get older, I lose more and more in plain sight.

As far as the washer goes, I used a mic, and caliper, and I am dead on with the thickness, although I do expect it to change slightly, due to the difference in material and such. I just want to get her running again. I am on the lookout for another fuel distributor, that I can rebuild, or has been rebuilt already, I want a spare.....can't find the internal washers in PET, so I fear this one is lost forever.

[AirtekHVAC]

Well, after another HARD week of fixin and patching air conditioners, I snuk into my shop this afternoon, and pulled the FD again, but with a different line of thought....the fuel mixture screw....

During my failed attempts, I have run it all the way up and down, with no success....so, after FD tear down #4 last weekend, I recall that it was all the way clockwise, down, which should be full flow....I cranked it counter clockwise for an hour, and it never seemed to feel like it was moving. I then had to stop for the week.

So, FD off, air plate off, let's see what we got...removed the spring loaded adjuster, and I find that the top of it, that turns the adjustment internal in the air meter housing, was rounded off at the tip....so I essentially ran it down so far, it couldn't catch to move back up. Turned it counter clockwise all the way, and got to full stop. Reassembled everything, (I now have adjustment again, btw), hooked up my homemade fuel pump toggle switch, and let her rip. I have no "singing" from the injectors, for the first time since I started this adventure,,,woot!

Now, I got to go buy some more oil (for the 5th time this month) and fill her up, and see what I get....I think I'm there......if I get it, I'll post a video of her running....might be tomorrow, evening, I gotta go work on a roof tomorrow morning...

[tlister67]

All this makes me nervous with my upcoming non-running 78 project. I think I'll tread carefully into taking the FD apart. Does the CIS react well to running cleaner through or is it rust that causes the problems?

[Danglerb]

Think of the CI$ fuel system as the most expensive one time use filter you can imagine. I would not flush any part of the system through some other part if I could avoid it, and that is easily done.

I think I would send it out to a reliable place, OTOH pretty soon every mistake possible will be well documented on this forum.

[AirtekHVAC]

You got that right! I will put together a how to/not to....maybe it will be good enough for the common fixes thread. I have loads of photos. It was really easy to take apart and reassemble, and really easy to make mistakes too......i am glad I did it, a great learning experience....

[AirtekHVAC]

Alright....she's running.....not happy with the current state...

The good....no more missing when I rev...smooth instant throttle response...unbelievable how much more power it feels like it has....I believe I got this fuel distributor licked! I need to tweak it still...

The bad.....smoking badly.....I had no smoke before this....I wonder if flooding the motor so much did some damage? She never really ran with flooded oil...I let it idle for an hour, and it would clear up a lot, but whenever I rev it up....I exterminate every mosquito in a 3 mile radius. I am hoping the engine is just full of oil, and it's burning out.....I hope....the smoke is blu-ish white...

Second, when I rev the motor, and release the throttle, sometimes the rpms drop slowly, and she sticks about 1500 rpms....I then play with the mixture/idle, and get her back down....this is minimal to the smoke....

I had a very loud backfire right after I started her up and got it running...(which took about 4 hours)....after that, she ran pretty good..

So...running pretty good...needs more adjustment, smokes badly...