964 vs 993, a systems analysis

[Bill Verburg]

here's another comparison, 3 didn't do these, but I believe it was a Dynojet for all 3. Same US '98 993 vram, w/ 3 different exhausts, no engine management changes

[Cobalt]

I have been noticing that on average a dynojet would be about 16-18% more optimistic than seen on the mustang also the curves do seem to vary. I know the dyno is calibrated regularly.

The C2 on a dynojet showed considerably more power/torque and the curves do vary.

I might have a curve from a different 97 C2S coming soon. Will be interesting to see how it does.

[Rickness]

Thank you Bill for an encyclopedia worth of information!!!

[Raleigh993]

I always appreciate Bill's input here and on Rennlist.

[Peterdublin]

Can anyone share the Bilstein oem stock Porsche 2003 996 "3.6" Carrera oem damper dimensions..a dimensioned diag would be great.. Thank you in advance!


Peter

[Balisong]

Read through this thread of great information but didn’t see what I was interested in regarding quality changes between the two cars.
We know the early 90s were a tough time for Porsche sales. They were making a high quality car and knew they had to find a way to make them less expensive to manufacture. It’s my understanding they consulted with former Toyota execs to figure out how to make cars more affordability. The 993 was the next car produced.
I have now owned three 964s (wrenched on them all) and find the quality of construction to be superb. I have driven a few 993s (but haven’t wrenched on them) and in general I look around the inside of the car and I don’t see a drop in quality? Though I've heard others say there is a drop.

On the other hand when I look inside a 996, I see the changes…big changes . I see the results of those meeting with Toyota to modularize and modernize the construction of the car. I simply is not equal to the hand made quality of the 964. The question is…what about the 993?

[Cupcar]

Having owned and wrenched on both I would say that the basic quality of the components is the same 964 to 993.

There are little cheapo details like a 964 crankcase uses studs and nuts while the 993 uses bolts, same with gearbox housing. Also more use of speed nuts for trim, etc.

[Cupcar]

Having owned and wrenched on both I would say that the basic quality of the components is the same 964 to 993.

There are little cheapo details like a 964 crankcase uses studs and nuts while the 993 uses bolts, same with gearbox housing. Also more use of speed nuts for trim, etc.

[BimmerDob]

My impression from multiple factory tours in both Stuttgart and Lipzig over the years and 993 ownership, is the Japan influence hit the 993 with the “how” on the production line (just in time parts and how that in turn that impacts / organizes the assembly flow / speed ‘ reduces labor costs ‘ improve production numbers), but had little / no impact on the 993 design. The design impact (to simplify production) and possibly quality impacts shows up in the 996/Boxster design that improved speed of assembly and commonality while parts sharing reducing parts costs.

Dropping sales of 968/928 was clear, but I suspect the added costs of those older production lines was also a data point coming out of the Japan input and any future costs to “996/Boxster” them was just more reasons to not continue.

Recall in the US at least for one model year, you could have any Porsche you wanted as long as it was a 993. Scary times in Stuttgart in the mid 90s.

[Cobalt]

^^How can that be when the Boxster began production in 1996 taking over the 928 manufacturing line while both the 993 and 986 were produced and sold together. I have a friend who took delivery of his boxster in 96. Production of the Boxster also began in Finland to keep up with the demand. You could buy a boxster or 993 here in 96 and in 95 you still had the 928, 968 and 993. There were also many dealerships sitting on 928's and some special 964's that did not sell until much after their release.

[Balisong]

Ah man. What a moment in time that was! You could buy a new air cooled 993, a basically like new 964, a 928, a 968 or the new Finish wonder. Guess which one 23 year old me bought. Let’s just say it was the one being made on the same line as a Saab. What a bad choice it turned out to be.

[BimmerDob]

Originally Posted by Cobalt

^^How can that be when the Boxster began production in 1996 taking over the 928 manufacturing line while both the 993 and 986 were produced and sold together. I have a friend who took delivery of his boxster in 96. Production of the Boxster also began in Finland to keep up with the demand. You could buy a boxster or 993 here in 96 and in 95 you still had the 928, 968 and 993. There were also many dealerships sitting on 928's and some special 964's that did not sell until much after their release.

Back in those days, a blurring of model years vs calendar years I guess. Not making any claims, just a passing reference to how Porsche says the timeline played out:

[POPSONGS125]

Amazing post. Being so fortunate to attend this forum.