964 shocks/springs need replacing

[rattlsnak]

Did some more research. Dont know about the Eibachs, but according to those in the know, the H&R spring colors on the OE sports went from burgandy to gray, Sports went from green to black, there is a new spring called Super sports that are blue, and the Race springs are now red. So there you have it!

[rbogh901]

Well this is becoming more informative every day. Are the spring rates listed by Cobalt correct? It's very useful to see them listed.

[Arrowhead]

[Cobalt]

Originally Posted by rattlsnak

Did some more research. Dont know about the Eibachs, but according to those in the know, the H&R spring colors on the OE sports went from burgandy to gray, Sports went from green to black, there is a new spring called Super sports that are blue, and the Race springs are now red. So there you have it!

So who are those in the know? LOL I know that up until a few years ago H&R only had 2 spring versions, the 964 green and red. If sport or super sports were added I do not know when but it would have to have been in the last year or 2. I went over a lot of this information with Adrian myself on rennlist years ago. From what i read although no numbers are published that i can find the spring rates must be changed to make room for the new sport, super sport vs race line. The info I posted was accurate for the commonly known green and red springs as of 2 years ago.

Originally Posted by rbogh901

Well this is becoming more informative every day. Are the spring rates listed by Cobalt correct? It's very useful to see them listed.

So much information what the actual numbers are becomes more confusing as these threads go on. As i stated I know that the info I posted was accurate for the commonly known Green & red H&R's as they have been sold up until the revised springs offered. Since there is a new line of springs the info I have is dated but accurate for those springs we were discussing. There are no posted rates for these new springs so there is no way of knowing how they compare.

Originally Posted by Arrowhead

Where did you get this chart from? looks official but there are several obvious mistakes that would leave me questioning its accuracy. To begin with it is common knowledge that M030 springs from the factory although paint coded differently than the turbo and RSA springs are the identical spring rates as the turbo & RSA and the fronts were not progressive. the RS and cup spring rates are far different than any info I have seen posted anywhere so i am not sure where these numbers are coming from. I also don't agree with the numbers for the H&R reds but they are close enough to not argue over. I have never seen any posted rates for KW so not sure where these numbers come from. When I contacted H&R last year to see about a stiffer spring than the Reds they told me they did not offer anything at that time so if a new line of Super Cup and performance street are available I am surprised. Unless they are talking about the older Super Cup coilover kit offered a number of years back and if that is the case these numbers are incorrect also and they are NLA unless re-released within the past 9 months. I would also question such aggressive rates for a performance street package. These would loosen fillings and destroy rims and cars in no time flat on the street.

[911jettat]

Thanks Cobalt for the insight and keeping the numbers straight. Also, I know you've addressed these same questions many, many times. Groundhog Day all over again...same questions, new day. Thanks everyone for being patient!

I was pretty set on getting Greens (or whatever color they are now) when I get rid of my stock 4x4 suspension...but now I'm thinking about turning things up a notch and going with the Reds.

I know my original suspension is way past it's prime, but that said my car handles and drives amazingly well. Yes it sits high, and rolls a bit...but it also feels locked to the ground and not nearly as worn out as it should be. My tech says the car drives amazing well, but I have no illusions though...it's worn (and way too high).

The thing is, the car literally eats up my local roads (the wheels feel solid on the ground and confidence inspiring, instead of harsh and bouncing around). Roll, squat, and dive still feel very good for an old sports car. I'd like to keep it the same but bump things up 20%. (don't know if comparing the spring rate numbers is linear or not...as in going from 200 to 240 is 20% or a different %)

My thinking was that Greens would be a huge difference in and of itself...I didn't want to get greedy and turn the car into something harsh, where I'm always slowing down and tightening the butt muscles when I see bump in the road...therefore slower in the real world and not comfortable to the wife. (Not all wives are like yours! Lucky guy.)

Then I read Mr.Bev's comments and think Green again. That said, I know Reds won't kill the ride...

BTW, I live in NC, so our local roads are pretty smooth...but with the way State budgets are going...

[Cobalt]

Originally Posted by 911jettat

Thanks Cobalt for the insight and keeping the numbers straight. Also, I know you've addressed these same questions many, many times. Groundhog Day all over again...same questions, new day. Thanks everyone for being patient!

I was pretty set on getting Greens (or whatever color they are now) when I get rid of my stock 4x4 suspension...but now I'm thinking about turning things up a notch and going with the Reds.

I know my original suspension is way past it's prime, but that said my car handles and drives amazingly well. Yes it sits high, and rolls a bit...but it also feels locked to the ground and not nearly as worn out as it should be. My tech says the car drives amazing well, but I have no illusions though...it's worn (and way too high).

The thing is, the car literally eats up my local roads (the wheels feel solid on the ground and confidence inspiring, instead of harsh and bouncing around). Roll, squat, and dive still feel very good for an old sports car. I'd like to keep it the same but bump things up 20%. (don't know if comparing the spring rate numbers is linear or not...as in going from 200 to 240 is 20% or a different %)

My thinking was that Greens would be a huge difference in and of itself...I didn't want to get greedy and turn the car into something harsh, where I'm always slowing down and tightening the butt muscles when I see bump in the road...therefore slower in the real world and not comfortable to the wife. (Not all wives are like yours! Lucky guy.)

Then I read Mr.Bev's comments and think Green again. That said, I know Reds won't kill the ride...

BTW, I live in NC, so our local roads are pretty smooth...but with the way State budgets are going...

The problem with these questions are that comfort and handling is a subjective opinion. The 964 was a well setup car when it was released and what you will find is an entirely different feel with a progressive rate spring vs the stock springs. I have seen stock Boge shocks go bad in as little as 13k miles although that was on 10 year old cars. They tend to get stiff and less forgiving before they blow a seal. This will usually cause the back end to bounce around and be rather uncomfortable over expansion joints and bumps.

As you switch to a progressive rate spring you gain a slightly stiffer ride over the stock springs with some feel of added cushion over the bumps with a degree of added stiffness as you enter the turns. There is an obvious difference between the stock C2/C4 spring and the H&R greens although the M030 and RSA there is not much difference and the reds would be noticeably stiffer. However I do not consider any of these springs to be excessively stiff on most road surfaces. Where you will find it most noticeable is on excessively washboard surfaces or expansion joints.

So if you go by my opinion I prefer the reds for my cars since they are not DD's and for their occasional use I prefer the added stability in cornering that you will be surprised an already capable car is capable of. If you decide you want to stay where you are I preferred the eibach's over the greens myself and found that the lower I made the car the more stable it became unlike the greens which are more consistent at different ride heights. Although now that H&R has changed their line you might consider the super sport which might be a little more between the older line.

[perelet]

I have question about difference between different models of Bilstein struts - especially position and size of threaded sleeve (not valving).


According conversation with Pelican struts that are sold on Pelican have ~1in of adjustment.

Question regarding part number VE3-5277H2-M12



Here are some pics that I’ve seen on net here and there and I just want to make sense of what is what.

This is stock strut & RS Bilstein – thread is about same size ~2in and on RS thread sleeve is a bit lower.



Does anybody by a chance have similar pic of Bilstein HD vs stock?




Are those Bilstein HD’s??? – thread size looks longer than 1in also is sleeve lower on strut or at same level as stock?



Is this Bilstein Sport? Thread size looks about 1in:




Thanks!
Oleg, 90 964

[Arrowhead]

I got this chart from a thread posted on Rennlist Spring comparison chart - Rennlist Discussion Forums

The chart was posted by (anto1150) in March of 2008 and he is from Italy.
It is a very good thread and has another chart from someone else.

If it does not come up, do a search "Spring rate chart" or "Spring comparison chart" and click show "posts" not threads.

[Cobalt]

Originally Posted by Arrowhead

I got this chart from a thread posted on Rennlist Spring comparison chart - Rennlist Discussion Forums

The chart was posted by (anto1150) in March of 2008 and he is from Italy.
It is a very good thread and has another chart from someone else.

If it does not come up, do a search "Spring rate chart" or "Spring comparison chart" and click show "posts" not threads.

I posted on the thread. The info they posted needs corrections. Will see how people respond. But this would be a change to everything that was documented up until a few years ago if these numbers were correct.

[rbogh901]

Anyone with a decent set of hd Bilsteins and HR springs for a '91?


In the meantime I contacted JIC about their products. They are going to have new options this spring but specifics are not yet available. Sounds like they are feeling they can improve and do better than the KW V3, possibly with a lower priced alternative to the V1 also. Could be a month or two away.

[jpachard]

The picture from FVD with the silver strut, blue boot and black spring perch are 964 RSR struts. I have those on my car which I revalved and they work really well. I'm running the 964 Euro cup spring rates which were 600F/800R.

Cheers, James

[cene]

D oyou have any pics how many miles on the shocks?
Thx.

[rbogh901]

Crap. Got a great deal on Bilstein HDs and red HR springs for my '91 but now it turns out that I have the early '91 rear shocks. I'm assuming I'll send them back, (hassle). The alternative is to do a spacer like some people have done (hassle), and maybe there is a sleeve spacer available (hassle), but I thought I'd ask here for advice.

[mdowell]

This is my '92 just after an install of Eibach's and Bilstein's. I wonder if it will settle a little lower?

[jpachard]

mdowell, If you want it to be lower you will need to adjust the ride height and then perform another corner balance.

Cheers, James

[rsrpedi]

i have a like new set out of a 964 rsa, including stock cambers. look at my rsa conversion thread before i changed the bodywork. this is a koni - yellow and hr red turbo setup only 4000 miles. if somebody interested pm my. location germany

[rbogh901]

There you go folks, another set of shocks for the later models. Be in touch with one or both of us. I have photos available for my Bilsteins. Brand new. It's driving season!

[onereal_1]

super hard question here. I have a '89 964 C4. I want to upgrade to CUP suspension. There is another guy selling a complete set. Will they fit, ya or na. I am having trouble finding if later model suspension will fit on the earlier years. Thanks. If they don't fit, then would a good set of HD and Reds be a good alternative? I want and "aggressive" street set up cause I track and autoX the car on a regular basis.

Thanks.

T

[rbogh901]

link with photos...


http://forums.pelicanparts.com/porsche-964-993-technical-forum/606788-brand-new-964-bilstein-hd-shocks.html

[perelet]

rbogh901, can you please post pics with ruler on the side, so it will be easy to see difference between pre/post 90 rear struts.

Here are pics of stock early struts:






Thanks!